EP 2. Berlin Conference 1884 - 1885 Modern day Implications I African News Review 🌍

This conversation explores the reverberating echoes of the Berlin Conference of 1884 to 1885, one of the most pivotal events that laid the groundwork for what Africa is currently experiencing. The conference aimed to formalize European colonization and carve up Africa without considering African voices and sovereignty. 

The conference's legacy perpetuates systemic injustices, economic disparities, and social upheavals across the continent. The conversation delves into the comparison of Africa in 2024 to the 1960s, the role of Pan-African leaders, the importance of historical appreciation, the impact of colonialism on African legal systems, the issue of settler colonialism, and the need to preserve indigenous languages and cultures. 

It also discusses the influence of Afrobeat in shaping African identity, the importance of African languages in music, the need for structural changes in education, the significance of consent in relationships, the influence of Nelson Mandela, and the impact of credit systems on society. Lastly, it touches on using music as a weapon of liberation.

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.034)
Yes, good evening, everyone, wherever you are. Good day, good evening, good morning, whatever time you're watching this. Welcome to Addessagee Speaks Knowledge, where we delve into pivotal moments that shaped Africa's destiny today. We're back on a historical journey to bring us to contemporary times. We're looking to explore the reverberating echoes of the Berlin Conference of 1884 to 1885.

one of the most pivotal events that laid the groundwork for what Africa is currently experiencing. With me this evening is a gentleman, a co-host, a guest, a longstanding guest. We go back a long way, but I will not steal his thunder. I will allow him to introduce himself. My friend's name is Demola Adeusi. Can you do the more in-depth?

introduction of yourself, please.

Ademola Adewusi (01:05.538)
Thank you, Adesuji. It's a pleasure to be here. I've seen a lot of work that you're doing about reawakening the renaissance in Africa and of Africans and I really enjoy what you're doing. My name is Ade Mola, Ade Wusi. I have been a student of international relations and international politics since 1990. So I have a basic degree in international relations and I have

Ademola Adewusi (01:34.99)
I've studied border management and migration management in Africa for about seven, or eight years. And so I can be called a border and migration expert. And I am an African, and I see a lot of things from the African prison, from the African perspective. So I'm very happy to be here today.

Adesoji Iginla (01:54.634)
Thank you very much. Well, without further ado, let's lay a background for people to understand what we're talking about. When we're talking about the Berlin Conference, this was a conference that was called by Otto Bismarck of Germany called a group of powers, specifically the United States, Britain, France, Germany, and Belgium, but Belgium came there vis-a-vis the personality of one person,

uh, Belgian. And, um, so fast to say, the objective of the conference itself was to formalize, which is quite funny, uh, European colonization and to carve up Africa, the one, I mean, whatever was left of Africa then, I will explain that, into the sphere of influence without considering African voices and sovereignty. That is key. When I said, uh, carve up whatever was left of Africa,

We have to understand that before this conference itself, there's been what was then known as the Scramble itself, which started in the early 1870s, where most of them just went in and just started planting their flags all over the places, signing treaties with people who didn't quite understand what they were signing themselves up for, but all the same bringing

allow them to formalize whatever their territorial claims were on swaths of land in Africa. The impact of that, we would say, has left devastating consequences for African nations as we have them today. You just need to look across the entire continent. Wherever you find conflict, it's usually across the old flagged territories.

It must be said there were people with tribal differences at the time. But nothing of this scale where complete annihilation of people, decimation, and continual acrimony has been the order of the day. And um.

Adesoji Iginla (04:11.93)
which is why this conversation is very important. And we're going to talk today about the legacy of that conference, that legacy based on the decisions made at that conference, which perpetuates systemic injustices, economic disparities, and social upheavals across the continent. And so, Ademola, just looking at the continent in 2024, I don't even want to date this.

2024, do you see any significant difference from what has transpired in the 60s when we're considered to have been given flagged independence, as I would like to describe it?

Ademola Adewusi (04:58.906)
I think that the purported independence of African states in the 60s and some of them in the 70s has become glaring as they rule in several parts of Africa. And if you look at the trajectory of African development, either the human development, economic development or political development, at every point...

where Africa is trying to get it right. You see the about-thralls of the Berlin Conference still pulling the skirts of Africa and saying, look, you guys can go beyond these primordial divisions that we have created for you to sub-optimize your states and make sure that you can move into a new stage of neo-colonial subjugation. Let's look at it this way. If you look at, let me just take, you know, you were talking about in Leopold.

Adesoji Iginla (05:49.86)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (05:55.51)
Let's take a look at the Congo. That's by the fact that we have fragmented the Congo, and we have planted several flies in the Congo and divided the Congo into three separate states. None of those states is viable. None of those states has been plagued by fratricidal wars. And you look at the Congo, and you see that it is one of the most blizzard places on Earth, in terms of resources, in terms of resources.

manpower in terms of hard-working people. But what do you see in the Congo? You see pillory, you see poverty, and you see continued enslavement of not only the people but the resources that have been given to that land purely because of the fact that the seeds of the war, the seeds of the contest, were planted right there in the 60s when that country was fashioned. And if you look at the fact that

Belgium took that territory and plundered it for ages and committed some of the worst atrocities that the world has ever seen after the Holocaust. And nobody's talking about that. We're not holding Belgium accountable for that. Now what has happened is that every other party has just joined in the looting of the Congo. So what has changed? Nothing has changed. Let's come to East Africa, East and Southern Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (07:05.45)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:18.271)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (07:24.126)
If you look at those places, you find out that the settler mentality took over. The whites did not want to leave. In fact, if you look at South Africa, more than 70% of the land in South Africa is still in the hands of the white man. And you now have to tell me that there was independence. If you look at that economy up till now, structurally, that economy is still in the hands of the white man.

Adesoji Iginla (07:40.83)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (07:51.498)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (07:51.518)
And if you look at Kenya, if you look at Tanzania, if you look at all the coastal areas in those countries, you will see a white man owns a lot of that, owns a lot of the prime property in those places. So what level of independence? Let's now come to West Africa, and let's bifurcate West Africa into two. Just like the Berlin Conference did, we have the Francophone and the Anglophone countries.

Adesoji Iginla (08:06.594)
Huh.

Adesoji Iginla (08:12.901)
Mm.

Ademola Adewusi (08:19.99)
If you look at the Francophone countries, you shouldn't even be talking about independence. A situation where a certain percentage of the riches of your country, your external reserves, must be given warehouse in France, does not say you are independent. A situation where your own military is seconded, so to say, and second-guessed by France having to tell you what to do with your own military, tells you we are not independent.

A situation where your ability to produce or manufacture is subjugated to the wings and caprices of someone in France is not independence. In fact, one of the jokes I used to hear whenever I visited Kotonou was that my Ben-Henoy brothers enjoyed eating French baguettes than bread made in Kotonou. They enjoyed eating bread that was made two days ago in France and flown into.

Adesoji Iginla (09:12.83)
Ha ha ha!

Ademola Adewusi (09:19.17)
than eating that gay that was made in Kotonu. So that's French West Africa. You're seeing a lot of things happening now. Earlier yesterday, Mali, Watuna Faso and Niger said they were pulling out of ECOWAS because they are now ruled by military junta who are now supported by Russia and other shadow factors against the French.

Adesoji Iginla (09:33.482)
Mm-hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (09:48.066)
Russia was not part of the Berlin Conference, but Russia is saying, well, you guys had yours in 1885, we are going to have our own in 2020. And China is also playing Africa. Now, let's look at Nigeria as a history for the Anglophone countries. And you look at a country where the British just decided to create a new elite class for themselves. At a particular time, the British empowered the military.

Adesoji Iginla (10:12.763)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (10:15.842)
to take over the country. And they told a particular section of the country, go join the military because the military is going to take over your country. And the back and forth in military coups that happened in Nigeria became a watershed and watermark for ethnic identity and ethnic contest. If you look at the Agunye Rossi coup, people will tell you it was an Igbo coup, and then people will tell you in 1966, people will tell you that the counter-coup

was an oust-acoup. And what happened after that was the civil war in 1967. And that civil war became another Berlin referendum. Because some countries supported Biafra because they wanted Nigeria to break, because they said Nigeria was too large and would wield interest in West Africa against the French and West African countries. So some people supported Biafra.

Some people readily gave arms to Nigeria to ensure that Nigeria was able to win. So if you look at all of this, in 2024, the marks of 1885, you can still see them all over Africa. You can still see Mamadou Sidibe not being able to speak to Mamadou Gazama in the African

Ademola Adewusi (11:43.166)
of the colonialism in the flags of the nations. You see, I mean, if you look at the way Nigeria, sorry, African nations were named, they talk about Nigeria was named by somebody who just well, the Niger. Not thinking that obviously there was another country that was already called the Niger, but in French, it was called the Niger. If you look at the flags of most African countries, they are lazy, you just need.

Adesoji Iginla (11:47.306)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:07.322)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (12:10.982)
red, green, and yellow on one side, and then you see another one that says green, red, yellow. I mean, so you look at this and, you know, an African needs to learn another language to speak to another African who needs to learn another language to reply. So, I mean, the marks of 1885 are obviously still with us in 2020.

Adesoji Iginla (12:25.99)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:36.362)
Hmm. OK, so the question then comes to, if that is the position, so what did the likes of Kwame Nkrumah, Modibo Keita, and Sekou Toure, unfortunately, we don't quite have a Pan-African leader. When I say we, Nigerians.

Adesoji Iginla (13:05.734)
What legacy? What happened to their legacy?

Ademola Adewusi (13:12.587)
The legacy of these very strong Africans was undermined by these same players who were in the Berlin conference. Now, let me give you an example.

Adesoji Iginla (13:24.842)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (13:28.142)
Who talked about the fact that the Congo had enough resources to feed itself? Who talked about the fact that the Congo could rule itself if the Western countries let it alone?

Adesoji Iginla (13:37.896)
Uh. Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (13:46.786)
who became the leader of the Congo and was trying to harness the resources and say, look, can you guys stay off our resources? We will fight our own internal battles and we will sort it out and we will become a strong nation. So what happened to that man, Patrice Mulumba?

Adesoji Iginla (14:01.787)
Patrice Lumumba

Ademola Adewusi (14:06.85)
So when you see a lot of the, I mean, I mean, Krumah talked about a Pan-African vision that was way ahead of his time. I mean, when I saw that Rwanda recently said, now, you don't have to take a visa. You don't have to line up in an embassy and take a visa to come to Rwanda. And I'm seeing some reincarnation of the Pan-African stance of some of these nations.

Adesoji Iginla (14:29.098)
Go on

Ademola Adewusi (14:35.094)
When I listen to Julius Malema now, I mean, what's an old, Julius Malema is saying, look, why don't you make the African comfortable on the soil of the African continent instead of having to go down at an airport when a white man shows up? And there were African leaders who were visionary. There were African leaders who were really interested in the development of the African continent.

Adesoji Iginla (14:50.462)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (15:05.758)
Some people, some of these people were deliberately suboptimized by the colonial powers. Some of them were killed in their attempt to liberate their people. Some of them were compromised and some were overthrown by coups instigated by these same powers. Some had the economies of their countries attacked, sanctions, parried by these same powers.

I remember, you know, during the Second World War, even before, you know, independence, Nigerians were being taken to Burma to fight on behalf of the British Empire. And I was wondering, hey, what did the Germans do to Nigerians and what did they come back home with? A lot of them came back with, you know, it wasn't the Agnus then, but it was...

PSDB, post-traumatic stress disorder, and we used to call all of them babasodias and they would behave erratically. Some of them were erratically mental issues and all of that.

Adesoji Iginla (16:13.45)
theoretically yeah

Ademola Adewusi (16:21.05)
In Nigeria, the British actually brought the Anglo-Nigerian Defense Pact of 1957, that Nigeria was supposed to sign that if the British were to ever get into any war, anywhere in the world, Nigeria would be obligated to send people to fight for.

Adesoji Iginla (16:35.454)
to move it. Okay. Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (16:38.722)
So if you look at all of that, and the leaders in Nigeria then said, no, we're not going to sign this and all of that. And it was one of the reasons that was adduced to say that some of the leaders in Nigeria at that point were too intelligent, too sharp, and because of that, they would not be given the power. So if you look at all of this, even in this election of our leaders, the colonial powers wanted to hand over power to whoever they wanted to hand it over to. So even if you were visionary, you were intelligent.

you were a nationalist, you were a patriotic person, that actually put a target, you know, a mark on your back instead of you being the kind of person that the Colonias wanted to hand over to. So if you look at a lot of these people, we mentioned Lupuma, Fuduturik, Yata, even Mandela, you know, during the apartheid era. The issue now is your love of your people, your intellect, which is supposed to make your leadership visionary.

Adesoji Iginla (17:15.615)
on your back.

Ademola Adewusi (17:37.386)
makes you an endangered species in the hands of the colonialists. And because of that, the colonialists will decide to use the military against you. That is if they cannot compromise you character-wise or even they cannot assassinate you, like the case of Patriso.

Adesoji Iginla (17:58.615)
And one of the reasons for having this conversation actually was a post I read on Facebook a couple of weeks ago. And the post was, I mean, I paraphrase now. You South Africans, whatever it is you do, make sure the white man does not leave. Because if he does leave and stop believing in all this Pan-Africanism nonsense.

When I read that, I was a bit taken aback. I said, what happened here? Was it the education? Or was it the examples? Or what was it that will make someone, because I saw the name, it's clearly Nigerian, who typed this out, what took the time, the pain to construct such a sentence to say South Africa is questioning

what you alluded to earlier, the European population holding 70% of the land, asking questions of that is somehow being silly or being obstructive.

Ademola Adewusi (19:12.207)
I, first is, I am one of those who believe now that our education as Africans need to be augmented currently. And it's one of the things that I am working on with some people to create a curriculum that doesn't put you into servitude right from age 6, 8, 7. And one of those who believe strongly that as long as we still have the curriculum that makes the white man's language.

superior to the language we speak in Africa, we will continue to be the lost intrinsic generation. And I say that because you cannot be more British than the British. You cannot be more French than French. But if you are Madinka, you are Madinka. If you are Yoruba, you are Yoruba. If you are Zulu or you are Xhosa, that is your

Adesoji Iginla (19:56.827)
Thank you.

Ademola Adewusi (20:11.438)
You see, when people look at things, especially when they look at symbolisms, and they think that whenever the white man rules a place, the place will prosper. Or whenever a black man rules a place, the place will be in ruins. That already tells me that your education is faulty. And I'll give you examples. There are places in the world that are ruled by

brothers and they are not doing very well. What a lot of people don't understand is that Africa has gone through trauma that entitles Africa to reparations to be paid for at least 200 years. Let me explain. If you went through 400 years of slavery, the period where your culture, your language,

your food, everything was stolen from you. And more importantly, the most important fabric of your society, the most productive fabric of your society, the youth segment, were taken away and scattered all over the world for 400 years. The fact that you exist now is actually a miracle.

actually a miracle. That's one. So take 400 years of slavery. Then take another hundred years or 150 years of colonialism. It means that for half of a century, African brains.

have been taken away and used to develop these Western countries that we're talking about. That's one. Second is that a lot of these Western countries got free labour for 400 years. I mean, if I got free labour for six months on some of the projects I run now, I'll be very happy. But imagine countries getting slave, you know, labour for 400 years. So that is one of the reasons.

Adesoji Iginla (21:56.65)
Mm-hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (22:20.194)
things that we're talking about. Now the legacy now continued with the colonial idea that white is for the Caucasians and black is for Africans. First, there's nobody that is white except angels exist and they are white. And there's nobody that is black. We are shades, different shades of skin and all of that. But you see Africans look at some countries and believe that those countries don't have...

Adesoji Iginla (22:28.204)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (22:50.874)
I know somebody who left Nigeria and said look, Nigeria not good and I'm going to America. I'm going to Houston, Texas and was shocked within a week of arriving in Houston, Texas. I could have been that kind of statistic in that same city in 2019. So, now you see a lot of people idolize and I think it's some level of Stockholm syndrome. Every nation in the world, whether ruled by a white man or a black man, has major issues.

Adesoji Iginla (23:12.714)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (23:19.278)
There are traps and entrapments that are already on the way of Africa developing. Why isn't Africa getting fair trade? Why are diamonds in South Africa, in Congo, in Botswana, and the exchanges in Belgium? Why do we have gold all over Africa, and the gold exchange, the gold price is determined somewhere else? Why does Switzerland make more chocolate?

than Côte d'Ivoire, Ghana and Nigeria. And these things are not new. They've been there for a while. There's a reason why these things are there. They're there to make you feel inferior. They're there to make you feel that, look, unless my chocolate, which originated in Ghana, is from, Faro, is from Switzerland, then it's not good chocolate. So when you have 400, 500 years of that psychography.

Adesoji Iginla (23:58.887)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (24:17.27)
What then happens is somebody constructs that and says look, despite the fact that 70% of your land has been taken by the white man, Sarah Africans, make sure they don't leave because you're going to mess up your own land. Now, every nation goes through some kind of nation-building. Americans went through a confederation war and all of that. And the British, hey, I can tell you, there was a time that London was filled with horse manure on the streets, you know.

because the time that Philadelphia was suffering from measles and it took a slave man from Africa from Nigeria to tell them what to use. Now the point is that everybody doesn't want Africa to develop and I'll tell you why. Where would you get your rare earth metals from to make icons at the rate at which you sell them, at the rate at which you buy them from the Congo? Where would you get your cocoa from?

Adesoji Iginla (25:11.23)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (25:14.482)
Where would you get... so you are not able to see your fair trade.

You're not seeing fair trade, you're not seeing fair, you know, there's a new international division of labour and Africa is carefully kept out of that division of labour. I remember in 2018, Rwanda was sanctioned for not taking used clothing from America. America said, we will not give you aid unless you take used clothing from America.

and buy them. And you're seeing a lot of these things happening and a lot of people yes, you can Google this. And a lot of Africans don't understand that there is a structure, there is structural violence against Africa. And because of that structural violence, you think they're doing you a favor when they come to Africa and pledge age to you and say, I'm going to give you $40 billion to do this and to do that. Why don't you give me access to your own economy the same way you have access to...

Adesoji Iginla (26:20.01)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (26:22.85)
why don't you give me the same opportunities that you would have in this place? So I will not blame that person but I will say that person is suffering from some level of you know mental colonialism that I cannot blame him for. Lastly on this, a lot of Africans don't even read African history or African leaders like the ones we mentioned.

Adesoji Iginla (26:38.856)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (26:49.454)
If you ask a lot of Africans now, have you read Kwame Nkrumah, have you read Tomo Sankara, have you read Domo Kenyatta, have you read, have you even read Road to Freedom by Mandela? No! If you ask a few Africans now, what's in your reading list, what are you reading, and what are you, tell me your best, you know, your best books, you see them talk about, you know, my best book is L'Encoign-U.

see them talk about, you know, people who, whereas right there in your own background are people who have spoken about your ancestors and spoken about your future in ways that if you kept that, you would be able to do better. So the lack of historical awareness, lack of historical appreciation, will let someone wake up and say, well, South Africans, we know that

Adesoji Iginla (27:29.394)
Mm.

Ademola Adewusi (27:46.546)
a white person forced you guys through the water and took you guys away from your ancestral lands but please make sure they don't leave, make sure they live there and you continue to struggle and I think the Stockholm syndrome anyway.

Adesoji Iginla (28:04.871)
Hmm. I mean, again, you know, speaking of legacies, you talk about the track. That track now brings me to the latest utterances of the German government in relation to what is happening in Gaza. And I bring that back to the continent in the sense that, again, we're talking about cognitive dissonance when

you've committed atrocities on the continent. But because, again, like you said, if we don't have a historical appreciation of what it is we're talking about, you won't know to stand up and speak. By that, I'm saying, with what happened between 1904 and 1908 in southwest Africa, Namibia, to the Hereros and the Nama people. Now, here is a massacre.

Ademola Adewusi (28:50.902)
Namibia.

Adesoji Iginla (28:57.79)
that was not only perpetrated, and it wasn't impromptu, it was actually planned because there's an extermination order signed. So again, we're talking about the Berlin Conference. This is someone deciding I own where you live, I even own you. And yet, we don't have.

the wherewithal to understand that this problem exists amongst us, and it's one of the reasons why the issues we have around us today still exist.

So good. So if you were to look at that, basically, vis-a-vis.

Ademola Adewusi (29:35.732)
Let me, I'm listening to you.

Adesoji Iginla (29:47.066)
What is still transparent in the Congo? I mean, the Congo is still an ongoing genocide in itself. Because yes, we don't see massive killings as we see currently in Gaza. But if you look at it over time, I mean, in the 90s, they had what was called the Africa World War, where in the Congo itself, 6 million lives were lost.

Because again, the instruments of colonialism wanted a dip into the place called Congo. And they all came in. Oh, you go in there, you do this, you do that. Now, again, with the Berlin Conference in our rear mirror, and shall we say they have left? Or are they still around? And if they are still around,

in what shape and form.

Ademola Adewusi (30:48.046)
Okay, let me digress a bit and then tell you that the injustices done to the black man are widespread but hardly spoken about by the white man and hardly even read and studied by the black man.

Adesoji Iginla (31:08.382)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (31:09.946)
Let me, in 1932, I just opened my computer so that I can reference the year. In 1932, in the United States, the Center for Disease Control wanted to study the effects of untreated syphilis.

Adesoji Iginla (31:28.436)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (31:31.606)
They wanted to study the effects of uncreated syphilis on people who obviously had that sexually transmitted disease. So in order to carry out this experiment, they chose Africans, they chose African-Americans, they chose blacks, and they told them they were on some experiment that was supposed to be treating their syphilis. And they were just giving them placebos just to cover the...

or symptomatic illnesses associated with syphilis. Now, a lot of these people died nasty, cruel deaths, because syphilis took over their bodies and all of that. And it took a long while before the United States owned up to this and said, really, it is true. This happened. We actually experimented with the lives of.

Ademola Adewusi (32:29.942)
black Americans and we killed them by making them guinea pigs, experimental, living experimental groups. Now, I showed you that in America because that experiment

Adesoji Iginla (32:44.459)
That's the Tuskeegee experiment, wasn't it?

Ademola Adewusi (32:46.538)
Yes, that's the toxicity experiment. Now, that experiment was learned from the colonial powers because Africa was the ground to test a lot of things during the colonial era. Africa was that place where you could come and massacre 6 million people and nobody would talk about it and nobody would talk about reparation. How many Jews were killed during the Holocaust? Around about the same figure of 6 million.

So today Israel continues to hang it on the neck of everybody. You know, there are laws in countries in Europe that are called anti-Semitism laws, where you cannot even say the Holocaust did not happen. You are labeled Holocaust denier and then you're sent to court. Do you know, till today, Austria and Germany are still going after Nazis, who actively took part?

Adesoji Iginla (33:32.67)
You do know how that...

Ademola Adewusi (33:45.019)
in the Holocaust.

Even though some of them were 81, and 94 years old, they are brought to justice. So who's gonna take Germany to task now on the experiment in Namibia? It wasn't an experiment anyway. It was a deliberate extermination in the Namibia. Now, you know, now, modern-day Namibia, which was South West Africa, Southern Africa at that point. Who's gonna take them to task? Who's gonna take Belgium to task?

on the very horrible things they did in the Congo, where people had their arms cut off because they were on the opposite side of the colonialism. So the point I'm trying to make is that the human treatment, the cruelty against the black man continues in different forms.

Adesoji Iginla (34:43.998)
Mm.

Ademola Adewusi (34:46.79)
has not left. They might not be here as white men again. They make sure that they bring companies, they make sure that they breed shadow parties that continue to make the black man look inferior and that continue to enslave the black man. The companies that mine cobalt, that mine all the minerals in the Congo, they are not Congolese countries. They are...

Ademola Adewusi (35:15.054)
companies that are listed on the stock exchange somewhere and they have this ethical, you know, very lovely ethical outlook in their countries. They will not take bribes, will not pay kickback, but we will send a seven-year-old to a mine in Congo and we will buy 5,000 AK-47s and give to a warlord so that he can protect his mine.

Adesoji Iginla (35:34.014)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (35:42.33)
Oh no, that's not our own game. What we are going to do is to influence the military and make sure that they overthrow any government that doesn't give us access to their natural resources. So you see when people say there is a natural resource cost, meaning that once you have a natural resource there is no natural resource cost. It is the interest in the natural resource that becomes a curse. Because once people know, they'll know.

These guys have platinum, these guys have uranium. They determine what they need to do to everyone around that resource. If they are compliant, malleable, and pliant enough to say, oh, Ogah, take it. You can continue to mine it at your will, my Lord and Savior. Oh, that'll be good. But if anybody in that locality, or anybody, of any nationalities says, hello, no, I object to that. I'm not gonna allow you guys to go away with this. That guy, the...

becomes the target that every colonial master is either willing to buy or to kill. So it's still happening in Africa. The problem now is that the challenge is that there are now more players than even the Berliners. You now have Russia with the Wagner Group all over the Sahel asking everybody, saying they will France, will help you to develop your military, will help you to develop your country.

Adesoji Iginla (36:42.59)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (37:10.242)
As long as you give us your natural resources. You've got the Belt Road and the Silk Road mountains from China, they are also in Africa now. And they say, look, don't worry, we'll make sure that you get loans that are not as stifling as the ones from the West. As long as you give us this natural resource, just give us this mine and all of that. I mean, look at Zambia and copper. Zambia has been mining copper for a long time. They sold some of their mines to the...

Adesoji Iginla (37:17.95)
Yeah

Ademola Adewusi (37:40.114)
Western countries who paid peanuts for it, money they could make in one year, they paid to the Zambian government and they made it. The Zambian government is still collecting the money after a few years. So you see that continued enslavement in different forms by the same people. Now the only problem now is that other parties have joined. China is now in the game. You're seeing...

Adesoji Iginla (37:54.334)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (38:07.222)
Russia in the gate and all they're after is the resources that God has given to Africa freely.

Adesoji Iginla (38:15.23)
Hmm. Now, one of the fallout of that is, OK, so you've got the resources. In order to control the said resources, you have to sometimes be present. And I think we've spoken to that earlier with regard to settler colonialism. How is that still an issue in 2024?

Ademola Adewusi (38:39.343)
Okay, let's look at some things now. What legal system does Nigeria practice?

Adesoji Iginla (38:48.811)
British legal system, the last I checked.

Ademola Adewusi (38:50.19)
British legal system which was built for the parliamentary system of government, a constitutional monarchy, Nigeria borrowed it and in true Nigerian style, you know, we like to put our flair on everything. We then decided that we wanted our own presidential system of government like the American system of government. What a confusing system. Our educational system till today is still built around the British educational system.

Adesoji Iginla (39:06.831)
and show system.

Ademola Adewusi (39:20.138)
to a point where people who are old schools in Nigeria now actually pride themselves on running some bifurcated, what is it called, curriculum? They say British and American curriculum. They are just adding more confusion. So, Italy is already confused. Okay? What language do we speak in order to make ourselves very...

Adesoji Iginla (39:34.783)
What?

Ademola Adewusi (39:50.658)
to understand ourselves, what is the language of trade. You go to French African countries, and in two French styles, they take a break at 12. They lock up, yes, they lock up their shops. You can go to, I mean, from Nome. I used to consult for Echoes, sorry, for Echo Bank, which is a West African bank, and I remember that we left Nigeria, I went to Koto Nome on our way to Senegal, and they told us that, look,

Adesoji Iginla (40:04.3)
No.

Ademola Adewusi (40:20.354)
At 12, everybody closes shop. Even schools close. You go back home, you rest, you eat, and then come back to school at two, and the schools will close at four. The culture, you are mimicking a culture for which you don't know why it was set up.

So if you look at our educational system in Nigeria, we're fast realizing now that our educational system will not serve us. You have people now who speak very good English but cannot do anything with their hands.

Adesoji Iginla (40:54.986)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (40:55.35)
We have, so the colonial mentality is such that you think because you're speaking, you're sure intelligent. But I am very sure that my ancestors were not daft. Because of some of the things that I have found out in Yoruba land, I'm sure my Zulu brothers, my Madinka brothers, my, I mean, anytime somebody tells me that somebody discovered gravity because an apple fell on his head.

I'm always like, how? Do you know how coconut falls in Africa?

It falls very hard and it has a hard shell. If your head were to be under that coconut, you would learn gravity by force.

Ademola Adewusi (41:41.199)
Apples are made apples to learn gravity. I don't know when you first said, la toro que il e l'umbo. But obviously, they were talking about gravity.

I mean, the UNO best said, tooba juobesoke niba nba ibi pelebe rumatilebe. Meaning they knew that there was some force that made sure that you couldn't continue to go up. You had to come down. And they said this in several ways. So my problem with us as Africans now is that the colonialists have left, the colonialism has not left. We...

Adesoji Iginla (42:09.027)
You were...

Adesoji Iginla (42:18.633)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (42:23.738)
I mean, I speak to my Franco-African brothers and you hear, see Paris and die. Meaning that if you travel to anywhere in the world, but you have not been to Paris, then you have not lived. That is only when you get to Paris that you can then die and say, yes, I have lived. And I've been to Paris, it is not cleaner than Lagos. Nothing happening in Paris. But you see the branding.

for the African is that, look, whatever does not have this stamp of the colonial master, whatever does not sound western, whatever does not sound like it belongs to the white man, it's not cool, it's not fun, and because of that, I need to abandon it. So if you look at Nigeria, for example, now, Nigeria is producing about 1.2 million graduates per year. Some of them study courses that have nothing to do with their future or their history.

Adesoji Iginla (43:07.658)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (43:23.678)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (43:24.982)
and you ask them to write something, write an essay. The English, they cannot speak very well. Their local Dhani, they cannot speak very well. So I call them the lost in transit generation. There's some way between trying to be Western and trying to be Africans. So in every area of our lives, the colonialists have left, or the colonialism has not left. In fact, what has happened is that

Adesoji Iginla (43:39.129)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (43:53.302)
colonialism has moved from being physical and now it is mental. You know, you see people say they don't want to bear native African names because they want to be John Jackson and Mr Stone, you know. And I mean it's one of the things that make me feel like our educational system is still deficient.

Adesoji Iginla (43:56.819)
Mm. Mental. Yep. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:05.95)
Thanks for watching!

Adesoji Iginla (44:14.646)
Mm-hmm. I mean, I remember back in the day when we went to secondary school, yes, we did suffer a bit of corporal punishment when we spoke in our native dialects. But I think there was something ingrained in us that just made sure that language will come out. We would speak it regardless of what the penalty was.

But I think now there is almost a conformity, a need to conform to say, you know what? I am going to seem to be sophisticated more than I am. By that, I'm saying even our music, it's only of late. I mean, I have to give it to them, the proponents of Afrobeat. It's only of late that has cut across. Do we see?

what transpired in Afro-Bits, coming and being the template for what else can go out from Africa in terms of our own identity. Because language is one. The language we speak, Yoruba, and so many other languages, are their own receptacles of history. So maybe that is a vehicle in itself. What do you think?

Ademola Adewusi (45:40.822)
Alright, first, let's talk about language. Every language is a relic of history. Languages must be dragged into relevance. They are dragged into contemporaryization. You drag a language that was spoken by your ancestors, you must drag it into contemporary times. If you don't drag it, it becomes a relic. It will only be studied by anthropologists who are going to be saying, oh, why did this language die?

Adesoji Iginla (45:52.074)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (46:09.93)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (46:10.198)
So, the English language is so good because it keeps borrowing from other languages. Last year, Jack Pa entered the dictionary of the British. Or Pa? Jack Pa, you know, is actually a combination of two Yoruba words. Jack means to run, to escape, to let loose.

Adesoji Iginla (46:18.54)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (46:23.358)
For those who don't understand what Jack Ma means, what does he mean?

Adesoji Iginla (46:36.393)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (46:40.47)
meaning desperate measures. So JAPA means to escape using any type of, you know, through any type of measure, any type of situation, just escape, you know. So, you know, and it's a Yoruba language, or KADA entered the British lexicon three years ago. So you see the British trying to contextualize and contemporize their language by borrowing words from several...

other cultures. That's by the fact that even the English language is derived mostly from Latin, Greco, Latin, and then a lot of French influence on the English language. So African languages can be spoken in the digital age and can have relevance in the digital age. There is a particular organization that is working on that in Nigeria.

Adesoji Iginla (47:17.691)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

French, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (47:33.574)
Mm.

Ademola Adewusi (47:37.294)
That's the same organization that worked on Microsoft in Yoruba, Microsoft Suite in Yoruba, Microsoft Word in Yoruba, Excel in Yoruba, because these things exist. Now, people not wanting to speak their language don't understand that language is about 7% of culture. Whatever you cannot express in your language will not exist in your culture because you cannot think about it.

Adesoji Iginla (47:49.45)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (47:58.915)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (48:07.05)
Let me give you an example. The Yorubas call language AD. AD is language. Now, the beauty of the Yoruba language is that AD means to tie.

Adesoji Iginla (48:21.624)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (48:22.754)
to de, means to tie. And the Yorubi have a saying that, a de, lafinde ero, you use your language to tie up, to institutionalize your thoughts. Meaning, without your language, you cannot institutionalize your thoughts. That's one. A lot of my friends don't understand something. Every brain has an operating system. And that operating system is the language.

Adesoji Iginla (48:31.741)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:44.483)
Let's see, yeah.

Ademola Adewusi (48:53.958)
I usually will tell a lot of people, when you are in trouble, let's assume you are anywhere in the world and you see three policemen coming towards you, what language are you thinking? And most times it is your mother tongue. Amen! In Nigeria, an African, in Nigeria, an Euro-Baman will see three policemen and in his brain, he is quickly saying,

Adesoji Iginla (49:06.734)
What's your idea?

Adesoji Iginla (49:19.468)
I'm sorry.

Ademola Adewusi (49:24.038)
And then there is the benefit of the brain that can speak several languages because several parts of your synapses can now fire. That's one. Second is the richness of your narrative. But Africans don't even want to give that benefit to their young ones, which is why we were beaten for speaking vernacular. It was called then. Our local journalists were called vernacular. Imagine. But the point now is

Adesoji Iginla (49:37.47)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (49:47.958)
Yeah, vernacular, yes. Woo.

Ademola Adewusi (49:53.254)
I've realized that the more, and science has proven this, the more versed you are in your mother tongue, the better it is for you to learn English as a second language. Now let me get back to my issue of music and then see whether we can do that. Nigeria has a very rich musical culture and Ghana also has a very rich musical culture. What has happened between the two countries, and I can say this authoritatively because I'm a musician, I play music.

Nigeria started singing like the white man. We played music that the white man wanted to hear. We used a lot of horns and a lot of brass instruments. We played high life like the Ghanaians. In Mormon life, they because it looked like ballroom music. There was a lot of jazzy influence on it. There was a lot of military influence in it. And it fitted the persona of the colonialists who were wearing gloves.

Adesoji Iginla (50:35.753)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (50:51.426)
who was wearing a ball gown, who was wearing a suit, and who was wearing a hat. So, you know, this music was in the 70s, in the 60s and the 70s, night clubs in Nigeria and in Ghana played exactly the same music. In fact, musicians from Ghana, JT Mensah, and all of them, would come to Nigeria and play here for two months, and then Ola Ia, Bobby Benson, and all of them would follow them to Ghana.

Adesoji Iginla (51:18.538)
You're going to say, yeah. Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (51:20.766)
do exactly the same thing. Now something happened. By the 80s, the new generation of Nigerians decided to actually start singing like the Oibomans. So you have all the Dizzy K Falolas of this world, the Felix Liberties of this world, and Chris Okotie of this world, who were singing. They were mirroring Michael Jackson. I mean, if you look at Chris Okotie, shiny hair and all of that, and he was trying to call African names.

like he was a British man or an American. I remember one of the songs, Ufoma, Ufoma I wanna marry you, he me your love. At that point...

Adesoji Iginla (51:54.314)
One more.

Ademola Adewusi (52:03.106)
The Ghanaians were still doing, you know, what is it called, high life. But the Congolese and the Cameroonians started doing what? Makosa. They were singing their own songs, their folk music, and in blue. The only Nigerian that followed that was Fela because it created an authentic African sound that had never been heard before and joined them in the 70s and the 80s. So immediately that happened.

Adesoji Iginla (52:06.107)
high life.

Adesoji Iginla (52:11.442)
Makosa. What's that?

Ademola Adewusi (52:31.958)
The authenticity of your own beat, your own narrative, your own language became the sole thing for your music to be listened to by the world. The next set of musicians after that, where did you do musicians? Ebenezer Obey, Sunny Ade, also played African music and they were all over the world. They were in Japan, they were in, I mean, all over. The next set of African musicians decided, you know what, we're not going to sing like

Adesoji Iginla (52:52.214)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (53:01.43)
going to use our own and then you can talk about the you know we can talk about two-faced edibia and all of that and then you start talking about Pasuma, what you came out by the 2000s you saw the band and you saw all of these guys who are now they are not into conformity they actually wanted to stand out but they were singing in Yoruba they were singing in Igbo

Adesoji Iginla (53:08.374)
So much.

Ademola Adewusi (53:28.226)
They were singing in any kind, you know, mekate, adengi, koko, umi. You see a smattering of English and, you know, one of my best tracks with the band is Oliver Twist, the way he was talking about it. The only thing that was English in that was, Oliver, Oliver. So, but the Ghanaians still kept to a certain kind of music. My Saharafi brothers still kept to a certain kind of music. The Nigerians don't suddenly realize, look.

Adesoji Iginla (53:39.835)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (53:43.754)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (53:55.814)
If we tell our own story using our own instruments, using our own extravagant culture, people will listen and that's what has happened. It's just like the way the Nigerians are taking down the rice. I mean, a rice that is not ours. You know, the rice that traveled from Senegal and came to us through the Syro people of Syria alone.

Adesoji Iginla (54:10.618)
Even though it's not us.

Adesoji Iginla (54:16.856)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:20.362)
We'll see you at a little later. Yeah.

Ademola Adewusi (54:22.294)
who settled in Nigeria, has written this list, and we're just taking it and own it up and let it blow up. So, if we, and it just tells me, even our economic model, we need to sit down and ask ourselves, do we want to fashion our economic life, economies that got 400 years of free labor, we want to tell ourselves, look, why aren't Africans trading with Africans?

Adesoji Iginla (54:35.996)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:45.886)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (54:50.746)
I like it when Africans compete against Africans fairly. Because we can grow in brotherhood. I like that. I've been watching the African football, or the African Cup of Nations, and I'm seeing Nigeria's rivalry with Cameroon. And I saw Samuel Eto'o being consoled by the Nigerian players after he burst into Europe. And I like that. Can we look at our own culture and say to ourselves, we were once rich, we were once.

Adesoji Iginla (54:54.974)
Yep, yep, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (55:02.301)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (55:19.682)
stable nations, how can we go back to that, rather than trying to ape economies that are not our own? I remember that about five, ten years ago, Ghana was the poster boy for IMF interventions. They were telling us that the Ghanaian economy was strong, the Ghanaian economy was resilient, and three years now Ghana has been going through a lot because

Adesoji Iginla (55:26.095)
are not meant to serve us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (55:47.724)
before to, yeah, yeah.

Ademola Adewusi (55:50.486)
Because I think the fact that we can sell our music, our story, our narrative, tells us that something good can come out of Africa. And I actually think Nigeria should be a very good exporter of high value, high performing human capital. If we tweak our educational system to be able to let the young ones find

Adesoji Iginla (56:10.687)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (56:21.134)
find meaning in the future. Mini loop. I can speak Yoruba, but I can code. I can write code. I can do cybersecurity. I can, we will be able to, we're 221 million people. Africa is a billion plus counting. And you know, the only narrative people think about when they hear the name of Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (56:29.77)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (56:49.702)
is penury, poverty and wars, and not knowing that a lot of that is caused by these countries. You know, let me even ask a very stupid question. How many African nations produce guns?

Adesoji Iginla (57:04.322)
Well, South Africa during, what's it called, during that part, yeah, but I don't think they're still into it now. I doubt it.

Ademola Adewusi (57:10.679)
Bye for now.

Ademola Adewusi (57:17.433)
So, where do we get all the guns that we use to kill ourselves?

Adesoji Iginla (57:21.234)
We're in, Potter. Oh.

Ademola Adewusi (57:22.786)
We import them. Some of them are even given free. There are the lords of war all over who come to Africa and say, oh, come, Nubile, you want to kill your brother? I have 2,000 AK-47s that I want to sell, but I am not going to collect money. Kill your brother first and give me that mine. And then, you know, so all of this is happening. And, you know, I'm just hoping one day we can sit down and ask ourselves a very important question.

Adesoji Iginla (57:26.258)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:42.332)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (57:52.674)
Do we want to die as fools?

Adesoji Iginla (57:55.454)
Hmm. Do we want to die as fools? Wow.

Ademola Adewusi (57:57.35)
we want to die as fools. The narrative that has been given to us is you guys are fools, we're going to keep giving you weapons of you know destruction to keep killing yourselves within your nation and within your continent and we're going to make sure that goes on for a long time so you can think about the major issues of how do you translate your natural resources into human development and then how do you compete in the global space.

So I think the wars and all of that are distractions to make sure that Africans don't sit down and really fashion out a way out of the quarkmines that we're in.

Adesoji Iginla (58:37.838)
If you were as a learned person, if you were to, based on the information, the conversation we've just had, what book would you suggest?

Ademola Adewusi (58:49.434)
Oh, okay. Now, because of cultural differences, one of the things I would like to do is for everyone to first read Thomas Ankara first.

Adesoji Iginla (59:02.523)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (59:03.814)
Let's read Thomas Ankerra. And the reason why I said Thomas Ankerra, because he wasn't a political leader. He was some guy who just felt upper-vaulted. The name revolted. I mean, it was riled up by the fact that, look, how do you name me? First, you took my land without my permission. You guys sat somewhere. You drew lines on the paper. And then they became lines on the sand.

Adesoji Iginla (59:08.835)
Why?

Adesoji Iginla (59:26.238)
consent.

Ademola Adewusi (59:33.162)
And then he was like, look, this is not how to run a nation.

Ademola Adewusi (59:38.358)
And you see, Thomas Ankara philosophized about what Africa should be if we actually sat down and say, look, I'm going to elect somebody who will think about the people more than Ishaarim or more than the number of cars in this motorcade. Now, let's not be...

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:01.086)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (01:00:03.486)
Let's be very clear with ourselves. The brand of Western democracy that has been sold to Africa has many false legs. It has many false legs. It is one of the reasons why in lots of places that are developing in the Middle East now don't practice democracy.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:23.434)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (01:00:23.518)
is to buy a democracy. Is Saudi Arabia a democracy? Is Qatar a democracy? Is the UAE a democracy? Is Kuwait a democracy? Is Jordan a democracy? So first is, I would love Africans to read Thomas Ankerra because he understood the fact that a lot of African leaders that were posted upon us at independence were actually colonialists.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:30.195)
Nope, nope.

Ademola Adewusi (01:00:52.926)
in Nigeria, most of their studies are broad. Very few of them came back to be able to impact us. That's one. I also think a lot of people should read Kwame Nkrumah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:53.43)
I'm sorry.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:57.107)
Mmm.

Ademola Adewusi (01:01:05.782)
then read Aholawa because if you read Aholawa you understand that governance is not rocket science. I have read all Aholawa's books and I realized that he was clear-minded and intentional about the resources available to Nigeria and how to harness those resources to make sure that Nigeria became a big, strong and powerful nation. If you read Aholawa you realize that he wasn't interested in oil.

wasn't interested in natural resources beyond the human development index of every region of Nigeria. I also think people need to understand the mindset of the colonialists. And I think Mandela gives us that mindset of the colonialists, where he was saying, look, you can fight the colonialists, you can have the spare of the nation, which is the militant group of the ANC.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:00.91)
Yeah, I'm too good. Yeah.

Ademola Adewusi (01:02:03.407)
But on the long run, you still have to sit down with your colonialist and say, I have your equal. You have to go.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:10.835)
Hmm

Ademola Adewusi (01:02:11.266)
So you have to go because if you brought a fight to my house and we've fought in my house for 50 years, chances are that house is not habitable.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:25.15)
Hmm, structurally, yes, yes.

Ademola Adewusi (01:02:27.63)
Structurally, but if I beg you that okay, you know that fight will still continue to happen. I mean we're gonna have that fight again, but why don't you leave a bit and give me and give me space and we have this fight. So I think a lot of people need to read Mandela. So I think if you read Xankara, read Kwame Kuma, read Ahulu, read Mandela, it will give you a sense of

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:51.698)
Mandela.

Ademola Adewusi (01:02:55.338)
that some of the things we're talking about today in Nigeria, some of the things we're talking about food security in Nigeria, security architecture, they were contemplated and discussed by Awolo in the 60s. And some of the things that we see now in Nigeria, some of the things we see in Ghana, we talked about Bailoa and talked about by Kwame Nkrumah a long time ago. Now we're talking about the African continental trade agreement.

that is supposed to ensure that Africans now trade within themselves and all of that. That was talked about in 1970 by Kwame Nkrumah. That was talked about by Awonowo. So a lot of these things that African leaders now make us look at, they are intelligent. You are talking about an Africa that is one. They talked about before. You see African

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:26.13)
I'm within them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:32.084)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:40.042)
more intelligent.

Ademola Adewusi (01:03:51.586)
We abolish in French as our official language and we're not going to speak our local language. That was a deliberate policy of education in Western Nigeria. People were taught in Yoruba language.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:08.038)
Yes.

Ademola Adewusi (01:04:11.394)
So I think the most African, I think the visual problem is that history, you know, historical awareness is lacking in Africans And we seem to glorify everything that the, you know That the white man writes, you know, if you want to build a business, people will say, read Jim Rohn Then we will tell you to reach Trump Some guy who never ran a very good business, some guy who took my money in loans

and still bankrupted his business on several occasions. You know, and somebody will tell me to read Trump. And I'm like, no, the art of thank you, the art of the deal. And I'm like, no, I can't read Trump. You know, I used to be a fan of Robert Kiyosaki. I read all his books, you know, the Quadrant, you know, the rich dad, poor dad and all of that. I mean, I read all of the books and I realized, well, in Nigeria, there's no mortgage system.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:42.706)
Redrop.

behind the video.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:00.746)
Mm, mm, mm.

Ademola Adewusi (01:05:07.51)
And the entire structure of wealth creation was based on the model structure, was built around credit. And I'm not in a credit economy. So if I continue to think like that and say, oh, I know a lot about wealth creation, the Robert Kiyosaki style, I will be fooling myself because I don't live in that kind of economy. So we need to contextualize a lot of our knowledge and by not reading books that are so far from our reality.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:11.858)
built around credit. Yeah, your credit.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:26.866)
Hmm.

Ademola Adewusi (01:05:37.166)
thinking that they're going to work. So I think our educational system also has a lot to do with this.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:45.598)
Mr. Demola, they will see thank you very much. And that has been a very insightful conversation. How can people reach you if they obviously want to tap more into your wealth of knowledge?

Ademola Adewusi (01:06:02.018)
Oh, I'm available. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. My full name is Ade Mola.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:07.447)
What's your two-time handle?

Ademola Adewusi (01:06:10.226)
My Twitter handle is at Demolytics. Same handle on Instagram. My Facebook page is Ademola. I have an European name there. Talk to me. This discussion is, I'm always ready to have a discussion that is

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:36.85)
Mm.

Ademola Adewusi (01:06:39.302)
I just think a lot of this is now in our brain, to think that we're inferior, to think that the white man does it better, but I'm not one of those who feel like that. I think the entire time we manifested our culture and said to everyone that Africa can stand up and be counted as a very strong continent.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:01.678)
Thank you very much. And you mentioned something earlier, which also is on the radar to be spoken about later, which is using music as a weapon of liberation. So as a musician yourself, at some point I'll reach out to you and hopefully you would agree to come on again.

Ademola Adewusi (01:07:24.518)
Oh, beautiful. I will be very happy to talk about music. Maybe I'll bring my fucking drum to talk to everyone who is listening to me at that point. I will. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:34.848)
Okay, yeah, thank you very much. If you hold on. Thank you.