EP 18 African News Review I Adesoji Speaks Knowledge 🌍

This week's conversation with Milton Alimadi explores the role of the media and the exploitation of Africa's resources by external powers. 
It begins with a discussion on Ngugi wa Thiong'o's open letter to William Ruto, criticizing his alignment with NATO and the West. 
The Review then shifted to the ongoing conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlighting how Rwanda and Uganda have fought over control of Congo's resources. The conversation emphasised that these conflicts are not African wars but rather a result of neocolonialism and imperialism. That segment concluded by discussing the need for Africa to unite and control its resources to break free from exploitation. 
The conversation also discussed neocolonialism and collective planning in African politics, the upcoming elections in Rwanda, and the challenges of media manipulation and biased reporting. 
This week's main themes include the need for collective decision-making in Africa, concerns about the political situation in Rwanda, and the historical racism and propaganda in Western media. 
The discussion also touched on the potential solutions of an East African Federation and the proposed third way in Sudan. In this conversation, Milton Allimadi and Adesoji Iginla discussed the recent gathering of Sudanese civilians in Ethiopia and the potential for a civilian-led government in Sudan, highlighting the importance of organised political activism in Sudan and the potential for the Sudanese people to shape their country's future.
They also explored the significance of Senegal buying back the library of Leopold Senghor, the first president of independent Senegal and a key figure in the negritude movement. And also emphasised the value of preserving and studying African archives and cultural artefacts.

00:00 Introduction and Ngugi wa Thiong'o's Open Letter to William Ruto
03:03 The Role of the Media and Exploitation of Africa's Resources
13:54 The Ongoing Conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo
26:58 The Need for African Unity and Resource Control
35:05 Neocolonialism and Collective Planning in African Politics
36:30 Concerns about the Political Situation in Rwanda
39:32 The History of Biased Reporting in Western Media
01:05:21 Potential Solutions: East African Federation and a Third Way in Sudan
01:06:50 The Potential for a Civilian-Led Government in Sudan
01:20:22 Senegal's Purchase of Leopold Senghor's Library
01:31:40 Preserving African Archives and Cultural Artifacts

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.038)
Greetings, greetings. Welcome again to Adesoji Speaks and with the African News Review. And as a regular guest, A household name, we have...

Comrade in arms, revolutionary, African explorer, you name it, journalist, Milton Alimadi. He teaches African history at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He holds degrees in journalism from Columbia University. Economics from Syracuse University is the author of the well -publicized manufacturing hate, how Europe was demonized in Western media.

So he knows a thing or two about how the media works. So we're here to pick his brains as it were. So, Brother Milton.

Milton Allimadi (00:53.492)
Thank you.

Milton Allimadi (00:58.068)
Thank you Conrad. Thank you Ndugu. As always I'm very happy to be with you. Deconstructing, deconstructing, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04.27)
 My pleasure. And yes, we are talking about the media and where best to start with great African writer, Ngugi Wa Thiong'o who has taken it upon himself, based on one of his books, Writers in Politics, has decided to write to a politician. And...

here we go. Open letter to his President William Ruto. Okay, so this letter stems from him writing William Ruto on behalf of concerned Kenyans and also Africans alike and, you know, the writing class. So he says, we begin, Dear William Ruto, the images

of your recent visit to the US was very disturbing to me and to every patriotic Kenyan. I saw you seated on a chair, grinning while Biden stood behind you, his face beaming with satisfaction. Why not? He had just announced that he had signed off our beloved Kenya to make it a non -member ally of NATO. In other words, you have agreed to become NATO's errand boy in America's struggle with Russia and China for access.

to resources of the continent. This part stood out to me. He then admonishes him, Ruto, do you know that NATO murdered Muammar Gaddafi so that Libyan oil fields, which Gaddafi had nationalized, would revert to the West? Gaddafi was once the chairman of the African Union, of which Kenyan was a founding member. But this other picture was no less disturbing.

while you were inside the White House. Haitians were in the street demonstrating, calling you a slave. Do you know the history of Haiti? Please read Black Jacobins, the book written by a once Jomo Keata Pan -African ally, CLR James. So, brother, what's your take?

Milton Allimadi (03:24.372)
Yes, of course, this stems from the recent visit of President William Ruto of Kenya to the White House. And of course, when an African leader is invited to the White House and is hosted with a state dinner, and only perhaps a handful of African presidents have been so fetid.

in Washington by the President of the United States. It comes at a, one could say at a price or at a cost. You know, there's a famous saying in the United States, there's no free lunch, correct? So the great author Ngugiwa Tiongo is basically castigating, you know, he is of course Kenyan, so he feels, I guess he would feel.

strongly about it, even if it was not Kenya, because Ngugi is an international citizen, citizen of the world, a Pan -African, a supporter of workers all over the world. So he's for the working people. So he's talking about that image, of course, and I'm sure many listeners saw that photo of Ngugi, of Ruto sitting.

Adesoji Iginla (04:47.854)
The picture, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (04:52.142)
of William Ruto.

Milton Allimadi (04:55.444)
behind Biden's desk where the United States president normally sits with Biden standing behind him while Ruto is seated. So it's almost like a father image. You know, exactly. Here you go, son. And you know,

Adesoji Iginla (05:07.79)
I see.

as if he came to bring your son to work day.

Adesoji Iginla (05:17.902)
See than pretend.

Milton Allimadi (05:20.692)
you cannot help but see the imagery that it could be seen as here you go boy and that's what Gugl of course is also referring to as since you're the Iran boy of imperialism. Now the question is this.

Adesoji Iginla (05:24.302)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (05:30.638)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (05:35.886)
and boy, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (05:44.34)
Is it Ruto who asked to sit behind the desk? Or was it Biden that offered? Think about it. I find it highly unlikely that a president of the United States would say, Mr. President, would you like to sit for a second? But it's not unlikely that a Ruto, who, of course, wants to maximize the propaganda value,

Adesoji Iginla (05:50.19)
Hmm, interesting.

Adesoji Iginla (06:01.248)
Yes, the seat on my seat. my God.

Milton Allimadi (06:13.78)
around the world and in Africa and in Kenya in particular that I have arrived. That said, Mr. President, could I sit behind there for a second? Because he knows the value of that photo opportunity. So that's something that I haven't read anywhere. I don't know who asked who, but nevertheless, the point that N 'Gug is making is very strong. And then it goes, of course, to the history.

Adesoji Iginla (06:29.294)
and then put.

Milton Allimadi (06:43.572)
Why are you being co -opted in such a manner as a non -NATO member ally of the United States?

Do you not know what NATO did? Do you not know the murder of Qaddafi that we all watched in real time? We actually watched live, the video was being streamed, it was being dragged, and pretty much murdered before our eyes, right? And all because of the resources, which by the way, they never got because Libya is now a no -go zone.

Adesoji Iginla (07:02.382)
without feet.

Adesoji Iginla (07:15.758)
Yep, very much so.

Milton Allimadi (07:24.276)
nobody's benefiting from the oil that the West wanted. And then of course he's saying...

Don't you know that Haiti holds a special place in the history of all Africans? The first country in history where the enslaved African masses rose up and defeated their masters and declared an independent republic.

Adesoji Iginla (07:53.262)
The Western Hemisphere.

Milton Allimadi (07:54.74)
You see, an achievement whose reverberation, of course, was heard in the United States, where millions of Africans were still enslaved. And of course, that lesson of Haiti, the enslavers, the slave masters in the United States did not want that example to spread. So even though Haiti right now has been reduced almost to its knees,

It's not always been on its knees. So we must not just see our system brothers in Haiti and dismiss them as a so -called failed state. It is a so -called failed state by design. It proved that it could be a master of its destiny when they declared independence after defeating the Franks. So to see another Africa now being used.

Yes, of course, Haiti is chaotic. It's very unstable right now. But in Google, like many of us suspect, that this is not about introducing stability in Haiti. Otherwise, why would not this be an African Union project where you have multiple countries contributing forces? Right?

Now you have one designated country, one designated leader, meaning it's easier to manipulate this intervention and to give instructions to one leader. So essentially saying you are acting as a proxy of the United States, because obviously with the past disastrous interventions, beginning of course in the.

Adesoji Iginla (09:40.27)
leader.

Milton Allimadi (09:52.852)
early part of the 20th century, when the US occupied Haiti and destroyed its economy, literally hijacked its national bank and constitution. You know, so given that the US is very is very cautious about the optics, how it would look for another United States intervention. So many people suspect that.

Adesoji Iginla (10:03.214)
It's economic. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (10:22.1)
This role has now been outsourced to William Ruto and Kenya. And that is what Brother Ngugi is lamenting.

Adesoji Iginla (10:32.59)
So essentially we now have a black face of imperialism in Africa, which paints, gives us a very disturbing.

Milton Allimadi (10:35.828)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:45.358)
prospects not least because yes I mean not least because the history of Kenya itself is laden with resistance

Milton Allimadi (10:46.9)
Right, and that's what he's lamenting. Correct.

Milton Allimadi (10:54.036)
Yes, absolutely. And of course, yeah, and I'm glad you brought that point. You know, the revolutionary history of Kenya is not as widely taught and not as widely familiar as the revolutionary history of the FNLA, for example, in Algeria. When in fact, you one could say that the Algerians,

and other Africans that later fought National War of Liberation, like the PAIGC in Guinea Bissau, like the MPLA in Angola, Freelimo in Mozambique, the Patriotic Front of Joshua Nkomo and Robert Mugabe, and the ANC as well, all took lessons from.

Adesoji Iginla (11:35.63)
in Mozambique.

Even the ENC.

Milton Allimadi (11:50.26)
Kenya, the Kenya Land and Freedom Army, which was of course denigrated as the so -called Maumau by the British. That was a really revolutionary act where the Kenyans fought to recover the land that had been stolen by the British colonialists. So he's reminding, in that letter, he's reminding also William Ruto.

that even though you want us to forget that history, we can't forget that history. So in fact, Kenya has much in common with people that have fought wars of natural liberation. And of course, Haiti set the example much, much earlier.

Adesoji Iginla (12:29.998)
AD being one of them. Yeah. I mean, there is a book I like to read from, Not Yet Unhuru by Oginga Odinga, who was one of the foremost liberation leaders in Kenya. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (12:44.148)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (12:49.588)
Yes, a socialist leader and I think it was Kenya's first vice president to Yomo Kenyatta.

Adesoji Iginla (12:54.99)
Yes, before he jumped ship, obviously frustrated with the path that was followed by Jomo Kenyatta. And it's the foreword to his book, Not Yet Uhuru. Not Yet Uhuru. And the foreword is actually written by none other than Kwame Nkrumah, who himself was the first head of state of Ghana.

Milton Allimadi (13:06.964)
current.

Adesoji Iginla (13:24.91)
And I'll quickly read just a very short paragraph. It was in order to eradicate totally completely foreign rule and domination from Africa to fortify the continent against the turbulent world of power politics that we bent our concerted effort towards unity. It is in this sense that I consider the establishment of the OAU as an important step forward, which is what...

Ngugi is alluding to there. And I will end with this part. He said, although political independence is a noble achievement in the struggle against colonialism, neocolonialism and imperialism, its effectiveness is superficial or less economic and cultural independence is also achieved. The road to the attainment of economic cultural independence is beset with neocolonialism.

which is becoming even more menacing to its newly independent states than autodox colonialism. So essentially, Ngugi with this letter is warning us that the problem is still very much real. And we're talking about 60 plus years. And we're still having to contend with the issue that the problem now is, as my people would say, Yoruba.

Kokurotunjifu are a follower, which is the germ that's desets the greens actually leaves on the green itself. So the problem is hosting, no, the country itself is hosting its own problem. You've got a leader here who doesn't quite understand his position in the world. And instead,

He's hawking himself around for validation. The validation you've already had with your people. You know, so any last words on that?

Milton Allimadi (15:35.252)
Well, I mean a number of points. I think, sadly, we as African people or any other formerly colonized people all over the world, we were miseducated that independence or Uhuru was an end in of itself, which of course is incorrect. Decolonization is a process.

And political independence is just one aspect of decolonization. So we have to remind our sisters and brothers in Africa, formerly colonized parts of the world, that we are still trying to decolonize. We're living in a process of decolonization, right? We still don't control our sovereignty. We don't control our resources.

Adesoji Iginla (16:09.422)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (16:33.364)
and even our minds as you saw, as you can say, Ruto is a brilliant example of a mind that has not yet been sufficiently decolonized. Could you imagine Mali Mojulis Nyerere sitting behind Biden's desk with Biden standing behind him or any American president's desk with the American president standing behind him? Just try to picture that image. Could you imagine Carmen Cromer?

Adesoji Iginla (16:55.406)
No.

I - Nah, I can't even.

Milton Allimadi (17:01.812)
agreeing to do something like that. Even Jomo Kenyatta, who of course you could say had nationalist credentials and then turned into the epitome of the bourgeois state and bourgeois leader. I can't even imagine Yomo Kenyatta doing that. And let's even select the most reactionary of African presidents.

from the 1960s and 70s, Mobutu. I can't imagine even Mobutu doing that. I think Mobutu would be cautious enough to see how this would play out, the optics, right? And say, no. You know, Mobutu, you know, this reactionary thief, the assassin of Patrice Lumumba.

Adesoji Iginla (17:44.718)
Of course, of course, of course, of course, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (17:54.254)
Clap your crack.

Milton Allimadi (17:58.068)
I don't think so. And that's why the more I'm talking about it, the more I think that the idea did not come from Biden. I think the request probably came from President Ruto himself.

Adesoji Iginla (18:02.99)
was his.

idea was his.

Adesoji Iginla (18:13.838)
Okay. So speaking of access to resources, and one that was alluded in the article we just went through, I take us back to this week, June the 5th to the 11th, 2000, marks, in 2024, marked 24 years since the Six -Day War in Congo.

And the Six Day War in Congo was actually a war that was fought by Rwanda and Uganda in Congo for control of Congo's resources. You can't make that stuff up. So I've gone into the economist and you know our friends, the economist would always...

give us a very nice. It said, Uganda, Congo's hidden war. This was how it was reported in year 2000. Uganda and Rwanda used to be friends. For nearly two years now, they've been fighting each other in Congo with devastating consequences. They could not agree who had started the war in Kisangani. Kisangani is in the eastern side of Congo and it's...

Milton Allimadi (19:26.644)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:42.766)
near the rich resource area of Congo. Norhoo ended it. For six days last week, Rwandans and Ugandan soldiers on foreign soil and more than 500 kilometers from home rained shell and mortar fire on each other, killing up to 250 civilians in this sprawling riverside town in central Congo, wounding over 1 ,000. Much of central Kigani,

Kisangani, including the imposing cathedral at the river edge, was destroyed. It was the third and by far the most brutal times these two armies have battled for control of the town since they began fighting each other. And this is one very critical part. It is dispiriting enough that Rwanda's president, Paul Kagame, and Uganda's president, Yoweri Musuveni, old friends, once described part of a new generation of

African leaders should be at war. It is doubly so that the wider consequences should be so grave. Their struggle, waged deep inside Congo, is a serious setback for efforts by the United Nations and others to help Africa solve its wars. That last part is key, to help Africa solve its wars. Your take.

Milton Allimadi (21:06.772)
Yeah, it's propaganda, of course. It's not Africa's wars. It's corporate war resources. It's imperialism. It's much more modern itineration. It's a bit much more clever than the brute colonialism of the 19th century and the parts of the 20th century, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (21:13.55)
War of Resource.

Adesoji Iginla (21:29.87)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (21:36.02)
are where now you outsource the brute face that was manifest by European soldiers committing massacres against Africans. Now when you have Africans doing it, African armed forces, specifically Ugandans and Rwandans, on behalf of imperialism, you can't say this is colonialism anymore.

So it allows these corporations to whitewash their crimes and say, see, as the economist says, you know, solving Africa's wars. Why would they want to solve Africa's wars? You know, think about it. Logically, it does not make sense. And I keep reminding sisters and brothers, you have to know history. And then it makes you, it allows you to understand what we see.

in our contemporary era. At one point, as Walter Rodney kept reminding us, we as African people were seen as merchandise, commodities, correct, and shipped all over the world to provide our labor for free to develop these places. So it's a process. The countries that are now industrialized, the wealthier countries,

Adesoji Iginla (22:47.566)
Correct. Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (22:53.07)
for free.

Milton Allimadi (23:03.636)
have always benefited by exploiting us as human beings, as human resources, and later on, our mineral resources. It started before the technology developed with rubber, it was ivory, it was food stock, and then later on, of course, mineral resources, petroleum, gold.

copper, diamond, uranium, cobalt, coltan, you name it, always benefiting people outside Africa. So as old school brute colonialism ended, it was essential to find new ways. And you read briefly what Nkrumah was talking about, neo -colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (24:01.166)
Learnism.

Milton Allimadi (24:02.099)
So neocolonialism now, you outsource some of the work that used to be performed by Europeans to Africans because then the optics are much more sanitized, right, in terms of protecting the European image, you know? And then you build up the propaganda of Africans always being at war, right? You know, they just wake up and they say, I'm feeling African today. Let me go and kill another African.

Adesoji Iginla (24:25.294)
Yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (24:31.374)
Hahaha!

Milton Allimadi (24:31.892)
you know, that's how it's projected, you see? So now the economist is talking about around the Uganda fighting, you know, look at these Africans once again, when in fact they were fighting to see who would be the number one, how should you say, the field, no, no, no, sorry, the house Negro, right? The house Negro on behalf of

Adesoji Iginla (24:53.166)
For me.

Milton Allimadi (25:00.052)
of Western corporate imperialism. So they thought, no, it can't be two of us. I want to be the chief Negro in charge, Kagame. No, Museveni wants to be the chief Negro in charge. So you come through me if you want to steal Congo's resources. So now Kagame has his army in Congo, Museveni has his army in Congo, and both of them want to be the Eran boy.

Adesoji Iginla (25:02.478)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (25:19.342)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (25:28.692)
You know, the role that has now been designated to Ruto. You know, at that time, Museveni and Kagame were contesting, you know, you know, it's me, it's me, it's me, it's me. And that is why they fought in a neighboring country over resources that don't belong to them, over resources that they can't even use because the economies are primarily agricultural, not industrial. The resources they steal from the Congo,

Adesoji Iginla (25:29.134)
the west via... Ruto now.

Adesoji Iginla (25:45.614)
the bill.

Adesoji Iginla (25:53.71)
me.

Milton Allimadi (25:57.94)
are then shipped from Uganda to Europe and North America and to Asia to the factories there. Same thing, the resources that are shipped to Rwanda. So they're killing fellow Africans on behalf of corporate industrial imperialism. And that, what year was that? That article? That's 2000 and today in 2024, that same

Adesoji Iginla (26:21.582)
That was 2000.

24.

Milton Allimadi (26:28.052)
War is still continuing in eastern Congo and both Muserrin and Ekadame are still involved, still contesting to see who will be the chief Negro in charge.

Adesoji Iginla (26:31.47)
Yeah

Adesoji Iginla (26:41.198)
That's the beauty of history. The mere fact that 24 years ago, you're still having those echoes today. And the same framework, the same players, the same actors are in play over the same. So that's little side note there.

Milton Allimadi (26:43.54)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (26:51.316)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (26:58.42)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (27:08.526)
to help Africa solve its wars. These are not wars. Like you said, these are not wars fought for the benefit of Africans. These are wars fought in order to be the go -to errand boy for access to resources. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (27:22.708)
Correct. These are highly profitable wars. As most wars are, by the way.

Adesoji Iginla (27:31.826)
Well, war is business, isn't it? Even the...

Milton Allimadi (27:34.068)
Right, except for the victims of course. There are seven or so million Congolese that have perished in these wars since 1997.

Adesoji Iginla (27:45.294)
Hmm. I mean, this is just systematic of the kind of problems that Africa on a larger scale face. Most of the wars you have on the continent are not instigated by Africans.

Milton Allimadi (27:57.748)
correct.

Milton Allimadi (28:01.268)
All right.

right and they will never be quote -unquote solved because here's the problem if Africa has peace and stability uninterrupted 10 -15 years who is going to be able to exploit Africa think about that

Adesoji Iginla (28:23.886)
Huh, that's a good question. That's a good question.

Milton Allimadi (28:24.884)
Think about that. You know? And once we're in control of our resources and we're getting the fair value and we are manufacturing as well, it means Europeans' lifestyle is going to have to diminish a little bit. You know? And that's, at the end of the day, that's what they don't want to do. At the end of the day, it boils down to simple greed.

Adesoji Iginla (28:43.534)
Yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (28:51.06)
Europeans have become accustomed to it. Look at France, for example. France gets its energy to power the country, to power the economy. About 75 % is nuclear energy, right? And the uranium comes from Niger, right? And it gets it at, pays peanuts for it, as Americans say.

Adesoji Iginla (29:14.126)
N 'ja?

Adesoji Iginla (29:18.638)
a robot a robot oppressor. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (29:21.86)
right? So do you think France, this is just one micro example, would want to see a stable, strong government that controls its destiny in Asia, that demands to get the fair price for its resources? No, so this is just one example. So now you multiply this by all those 54 African countries and now you have a better understanding of why chaos,

Adesoji Iginla (29:32.35)
In Asia.

Adesoji Iginla (29:37.454)
highly unlikely.

Milton Allimadi (29:51.316)
instability, conflict is part of the necessary condition for Western and increasingly now Asian interest and imperialism to protect itself on Africa. It's not by accident. You think that with all the resources available in the world, if stopping conflict in Africa was an abound priority,

Adesoji Iginla (30:03.918)
interests.

Adesoji Iginla (30:09.838)
I mean, I used.

Milton Allimadi (30:20.564)
You think it would not be accomplished?

Adesoji Iginla (30:23.374)
It will be, it will be, it will be. But the most -

Milton Allimadi (30:24.98)
Look at the brutality of World War II in Europe when an estimated 60 to 80 million people perished as a result of that war. Did that not stop at some point?

Adesoji Iginla (30:41.678)
edit and came up with rules of engagement.

Milton Allimadi (30:42.964)
Did they not rebuild the economies completely of Europe? Where are those buildings now destroyed with the bombings and the shellings? Does Europe even manifest that it had gone through that brutal war? So why is it only that in Africa we can't resolve these issues?

Adesoji Iginla (30:49.198)
They did.

Milton Allimadi (31:04.34)
Think about that. It is essential for Africa to remain weak, divided in conflict. Not totally, utterly war in every location, because then it becomes difficult to extract resources too, you see? So it's managed. It's managed. If organized chaos, if every part of the African continent was like Eastern Congo, then it would become a problem.

Adesoji Iginla (31:24.91)
Organize chaos.

Milton Allimadi (31:33.908)
You see?

Adesoji Iginla (31:34.798)
But as long as we can tiptoe around the problem spots.

Milton Allimadi (31:38.516)
The edges, exactly. Now think about it. So for anybody who's deluded and think there's some mystery, I read all these academic papers, crises in Africa, the challenges of, as if there's a mystery. They have these high level academic conferences. Yeah, they call it what?

Adesoji Iginla (31:45.038)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (32:06.932)
white paper, blue paper. You know, think about it. You know, there are no need for those papers unless the paper is saying these conflicts are by design and they will always manifest so long as the industrialized countries profit from Africa's conflicts.

Adesoji Iginla (32:08.046)
White paper, yeah. Think tanks. Think tank has just released a report, you know.

Milton Allimadi (32:37.684)
and Africa's resources. You know, Africa is the way where China was before the Chinese Revolution, you see, where as late as the era of World War I, even the earlier stages of World War II, where you had European

American Western soldiers could still be deployed on Chinese soil. Can you imagine? Can you imagine that happening today in 2024? Of course not. But at that time, China was chaotic. Of course, it has a great history of civilization, just like Africa does, right? Great empires, you know, in China. But China was very divided.

Adesoji Iginla (33:26.158)
Mm -hmm. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (33:36.948)
right? But then after the Chinese Revolution, and one can condemn the excesses of whatever happened during the revolution, but nobody can challenge the fact that today China is a global power. You see, because China is now united, the 1 .4 or 1 .5 billion people are the citizens of a united Chinese

Adesoji Iginla (33:45.998)
Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (33:57.87)
billion.

Milton Allimadi (34:06.42)
nation, you see, the People's Republic of China. Okay, the same thing with India. That is why you are seeing more and more about India now, more coverage of its economies, right? The economy is now larger than the economy of Britain. Of course, it's still a long way because Britain only has a fraction of India's population, which is also about 1 .5 billion.

Adesoji Iginla (34:23.982)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (34:36.244)
But both India and China are at a different location compared to Africa, where you also have 1 .5 billion people, but the citizens of 54 different countries. And that makes a difference. It means the governments in each of those 54 countries have different priorities, right? They cannot accomplish what Nkrumah wrote about.

Adesoji Iginla (34:43.694)
the African continent.

Adesoji Iginla (34:59.886)
Hmm. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (35:05.16)
in neocolonialism, the last stage of imperialism, where he's talking about the collective planning of their politics, of their military, of their economy. You can't do that. Even Czech Ante Jop wrote about that too, right?

Adesoji Iginla (35:06.67)
Lines in.

Adesoji Iginla (35:22.35)
Yeah, Black Africa, the economic basis for a federated state.

Milton Allimadi (35:26.004)
Absolutely. Right? He wrote about that. He says we have the cat before the horse. He says so long as we have all these governments, we cannot make a collective executive decision. We can talk about industrialization until kingdom come. Nothing will change. The politics is very important. You know, it was after China changes politics. That's it.

Adesoji Iginla (35:50.67)
Speaking of police.

Milton Allimadi (35:55.156)
then its economy started changing to where it is today. And that happened after the Chinese Revolution.

Adesoji Iginla (36:03.79)
So speaking of politics, we are in the year of elections. We've just had South Africa's elections, the fallouts we still have. Government of national unity is yet to be formed, but they're in the throes of that. Rwanda, too, would be going to the polls. I'm sure you would like to know that. Rwanda would be going to its polls.

Milton Allimadi (36:30.548)
Well, I can tell you who's going to win. Yeah, if you're willing, if you're willing to lay a million dollars on the table, I will give you a prediction right now. You know? Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (36:33.95)
Let's find out. Let's find out together.

Let's find out together. Okay, so the understanding, according to the New York Times, Rwanda's 2024 elections, what to know, a report filed by Abdilatif Dahor from Nairobi, Kenya. Why does this election matter? Rwanda's presidential and parliamentary election this year are taking place three decades after genocide in which some 800 ,000 people were killed. Paul Kagame, who helped end the bloodshed.

been in power ever since and is expected to win again in this election which takes place on July 15. Under his rule the Central African nation of Rwanda has achieved significant economic strides and has become a leading contributor of troops to the United Nations peacekeeping forces. But critics say Mr Kagame has overseen a repressive state accused of widespread human rights violations.

and where power and wealth are reserved for his ethnic Tutsi elites. There is another part. The election is taking place against the backdrop of rising tensions within neighboring democratic Republic of Congo. Mr. Kagame has accused the Congolese officials of backing Hutu rebels who fled after committing genocide in 1994 and who he says plan on returning to finish what they started.

Mr. Kagame has in turn been accused of sowing chaos in Eastern Congo by backing rebel forces who have carried out massacres and displayed tens of thousands of people in the country. Now, who is running? You did say you know who is likely to win, so you might get an inkling from here. Who is running and who is likely to win? Mr. Kagame, 66, is expected to win a fourth time.

Adesoji Iginla (38:36.494)
According to observers, there are no independent polls in Rwanda. I wonder why. In 2015, he oversaw a referendum that changed term limits, ensuring he can extend his tenure until 2034. In 2017, he won with almost 99 % of the vote. Wow, that's very unanimous. In an election that observers said was rigged. OK, those are Western interests again.

The arrest and persecution of opposition members, the intimidation of activists, and accusations that many voters were forced to choose Mr. Kagame, all pointed to voting that was not free or fair, independent observers and human rights group said. So here is Mr. Frank Habineza. He's the chairman of the opposition Democratic Green Party. And he has submitted his papers to run for president. And he seemed very...

Motivated.

Milton Allimadi (39:37.748)
We're going.

Milton Allimadi (39:41.844)
But he's courageous. I have to give him that. You know?

Adesoji Iginla (39:45.582)
okay yeah yeah I mean he is he's

Milton Allimadi (39:50.036)
He's courageous, but the article itself has so many fallacies. I believe that's the correspondent of the New York Times whom I think I've met. He may have actually. I spoke to a class at Columbia. I think he was still a student at that time. I don't know if he's the one who had invited me to come to speak at the Columbia Journalism School, which of course is my alma mater as well.

Adesoji Iginla (39:54.766)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (40:12.59)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (40:20.564)
I mean, I like a lot of his writing, his coverage, except of course, he's also subjected to the editing process and the propaganda that they have to plug in the story, right? So, earlier on, at some point in the article, they're saying Kagame is credited with stopping the genocide in 1994.

Adesoji Iginla (40:27.662)
But.

Adesoji Iginla (40:38.99)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (40:51.028)
without saying that since he likes referring to critics and observers without saying that he himself has been accused of instigating the genocide. And for people that are not familiar they should watch Rwanda's Untold Story which is a BBC documentary and I think you can see it via Venmo documentary which was never

Adesoji Iginla (41:03.502)
genocide itself.

Milton Allimadi (41:19.412)
shown in the United States by the way because after the BBC produced it there's an aggressive propaganda and attack. BBC was banned from reporting from Rwanda for a couple of years as a result of that and accused of genocide denial ideology just like many of the critics of

Adesoji Iginla (41:21.934)
Hmm, I wonder why.

Milton Allimadi (41:47.796)
have been accused. In fact, I remember a few years ago for one of my editorials on Black Star News, I was also referred to as a genocide denier on one of the websites in Rwanda. So I may not be eligible to visit that country for a while, you know, for my own protection, of course. So, and then there's another reference there.

the very preposterous referent by saying, you know, the election is believed to have been rigged and that he won by 99%. How do you win something that has been rigged and by 99 %? So the use of the term won is also very preposterous. I mean, you know, you could say he awarded himself victory, you know, that would be much more accurate.

So, you know, this abuse of words is mind boggling. You know, it diminishes the meaning of winning, right, and victory in elections. And then the other point that I noticed based on what you just read is also very problematic and only people who pay very close attention would see what is being done, the spin, right? So he starts off by saying, Kagame,

about conflict between Rwanda and DRC. Of course, anybody who is an allot human being would know that the root of that conflict is the fact that Rwanda has invaded Democratic Republic of the Congo under the guise of M23, a supposed Congolese rebel army, which in fact is essentially Rwanda's.

Adesoji Iginla (43:21.838)
DRC, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (43:34.67)
that the error of correct.

Milton Allimadi (43:46.74)
official armed forces under a different name. And they have experience in doing this since 1990 when Rwanda was initially invaded from Uganda by Paul Kagame and his compatriots. At that time he was an official member of the Ugandan Armed Forces. He was chief of military intelligence. He was one of the many

Adesoji Iginla (44:08.27)
and forces.

Milton Allimadi (44:14.036)
ethnic Tutsi that grew up in Uganda because their parents had fled massacres and genocide after the revolution in 1959, 1960 when the monarchy was, the ethnic Tutsi monarchy was overthrown in Rwanda. And then they morphed into, from the Ugandan official military, they became the Rwanda Patriotic Front. So they're using that same template again.

Adesoji Iginla (44:30.926)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (44:43.348)
M23, when in fact it's part of Rwanda's regular military. It has artillery, it's throwing loving shells to Congo, it has drones, you know, it has its own air force essentially, right? So rather than beginning with that as the root of the conflict, if you notice the article says it first mentioned Kagame's beef with Congo. It says Rwanda accuses Congo.

Adesoji Iginla (44:57.502)
You

Milton Allimadi (45:13.268)
of supporting Hutu rebels who fled after committing genocide in 1994, right? 30 years later, the same people who fled are still fighting, right? People who would have been in their 20s and now would be in their 50s and 60s are still fighting and we are supposed to. So if you don't pay careful attention, that would just go by you because that's from a template.

Adesoji Iginla (45:21.614)
Yep, correct.

Adesoji Iginla (45:31.182)
You are still fighting.

Adesoji Iginla (45:38.158)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (45:40.756)
So you just Google when you're writing an article and you just copy that and put it in your article. And if you've been doing that for three, it's not the years, you don't realize that somebody who pays attention might be saying, wait a minute, wouldn't these guys be almost 60 years old by now? You see? So that's why it's good to have people that are on top of Western media manipulation to deconstruct, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (45:53.742)
This doesn't make sense. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Milton Allimadi (46:10.612)
the text.

Adesoji Iginla (46:13.646)
And also to add to what you just said now, it's also the notion that you're writing, okay, this is the New York Times. Your book, Manufacturing Hate, How Africa Was Demonized in the Western Media, takes them to task on their various reporting ethos. And to think,

Despite books like that being out there, there's another one on the Palestinian question. The name escapes me now. The same line, the same way of operating, and they're still doing it in 2024.

Milton Allimadi (46:58.996)
Right. Right. It's a problem. I mean, listen, I have always said, listen, you, I said this 30 years ago, right, when I first did my research, more than 30 years ago at Columbia University, the graduate school, because it started as my master's paper, right, before it developed over the years into a book. And I've never really spoken publicly about this aspect. Of course, the New York Times.

are very concerned by this history that I've dug up of the racism toward Africa, historical racism in African coverage. I went back to an editorial from, I think it was sometime in the 19th century, right before the Berlin Conference. Right?

So it was maybe early 1880 or 1776, I think. 18 rather, 1876, before the conference in 1884. And there were the racist projection of Africa and saying England should go and colonize and civilize the natives. And I brought it all the way to the era.

the 1960s when they actually started sending correspondence to Africa. And what was even worse was that I discovered what today in the 21st century would be called fake news, when they concocted things that never happened in Africa and wrote about it. I gave you in the past example of people in Nigeria dressed in grass -leaf skirts, which even the writer of the article, Lloyd Garrison,

Adesoji Iginla (48:50.03)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (48:55.342)
took exception to.

Milton Allimadi (48:58.1)
complained to his editors in New York, said, who inserted that in my story? He read it when he's somewhere in Nigeria. He's like, who are you? Right? So they're very concerned with that history. I know it. And in fact, what I did was I offered to be an ally with them in getting them beyond this history. When I was, before I even graduated from Columbia, I said, let me write an op -ed saying these are the things I discovered. This is where the times is today.

This is where you need to go. Right. So that offer, of course, was declined. But even then, I was willing to be a part of the Africa coverage. Right. Because after all, I actually met with Joseph Lallyville, who was one of the reporters and then later editor of the Times, whom I admired. Right.

Adesoji Iginla (49:41.326)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (49:56.91)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (49:58.164)
And when I wrote to him, I complained about, you know, because what happened was my article was supposed to be published in a magazine, Columbia Journalism Review, and then they backed out. So I realized they were afraid of the Times. So I wrote to the publisher of the Times, Salzburger. And he wrote, and Lelyville wrote to me. He was the managing editor. So we developed a rapport. And I was supposed to go to be the correspondent.

Adesoji Iginla (50:28.206)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (50:28.372)
not their correspondent, but their stringer working with the correspondent in East Africa. And the correspondent was based in Nairobi. But, you know, and then this is things that I started thinking about later on about the level of their concern. I'll give you a few incidents. So when I first went to meet Lerleville in his office in the New York Times building, the deputy foreign news editor, you know,

came to meet me and it was holding a copy of the letter that I had sent to the publisher that had excerpts from my thesis also. And one of the most notorious of the title writers, his name was Homer Bigot, B -I -G -A -R -T. And he wrote a letter when he was first sent to Accra to cover, okay, tell us how the natives are doing now.

Adesoji Iginla (51:07.118)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (51:26.74)
after Ghana had been independent for a while, so it was sent in 1959. And he wrote something, and I'm paraphrasing, and he said, you know, he compared Nkrumah to Henry Wallace, who had been an American politician from the 60s, the 50s rather, to Henry Wallace in burnt cork. That's what he's saying about Nkrumah, right? And he says, yes. And then he's saying, I prefer,

Adesoji Iginla (51:49.358)
black.

Milton Allimadi (51:56.02)
the primitive Bush people because after all carnivalism is the best antidote to this population explosion that everybody is complaining about. So that's in his letter to his managing editor, to his foreign news editor, Emmanuel Friedman. But I went, I went and I said let me see the articles published around that same time and it has a perfect correlation.

Adesoji Iginla (52:13.07)
and it was not taken to task

Milton Allimadi (52:23.988)
between the views he expressed in his personal letter and what was published in the New York Times purporting to be articles. So these are the kind of examples that are terrified of. So the Peter Farrin News Editor, I forget his first name, his last name was Weissman. So he comes and he greets me before I go to the letter of his office. And he said, you know,

Adesoji Iginla (52:38.67)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (52:52.34)
I never liked Homer Bigard. What's the point? I'm not saying you're personally responsible for any of this. Why are you feeling that level of defensiveness? So that's one example. Let me give you a second example. So the correspondent of the New York Times at that time, her name was Donna Teller Lodge.

Adesoji Iginla (53:03.086)
You personally tied to him? Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (53:19.54)
And she had established a reputation as being this fearless war man reporter, what reported even from Afghanistan during the era of the Taliban when they were fighting against, no, not the Taliban, the Mujahideen, when they were fighting to kick out the Russians, the Soviet Union at that time. So she was supposed to be, I was supposed to work with her as her stringer in East Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (53:33.902)
the Russians.

fighting against the Russians.

Milton Allimadi (53:49.3)
So then I meet her for dinner, right? Around Columbia. This is after I'd met with Leleville in his office. We discussed, you know, how I'm going to work with her, blah, blah, blah. So I meet her. We have dinner. And then she's walking me toward the train. We're still chatting. And then she said something like, by the way, Joe, you know, Joe Leleville, really, I don't remember if she referred to him as Joe.

or by his last name, Letterville. Anyway, she said he liked my paper, my master's paper, you see? And obviously, you know, she's telling me that Letterville is actually agreeing with the things that I wrote about, you see? So he's an ally, you see? So I took that, okay, good. But then she asked a very strange question, which I only deconstructed much later.

Adesoji Iginla (54:26.798)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:34.67)
with the content of your... yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (54:48.468)
She said, what do you want? Suddenly, you know, journalists sometimes they think, you know, they can like kind of ambush. I said, what do you want? I said, what do you mean? I said, what do you want?

Adesoji Iginla (54:54.606)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:01.166)
What do you want?

Milton Allimadi (55:02.324)
What do you really want?

Adesoji Iginla (55:06.926)
Just want you to be forthright.

Milton Allimadi (55:08.18)
It was later on that I realized, you know what? They think, you know, I think their number one concern was that this work never come out, you know, in a wide, broad, disseminated widely. And that, of course, now I look back, my Columbia Journal's review could not publish it. I think they thought I wanted something like a quid pro quo.

Adesoji Iginla (55:10.958)
You have been made an offer.

Adesoji Iginla (55:27.662)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (55:38.228)
It could not be that this guy just wants to be my stringer and then eventually maybe come back and be on staff at the New York Times. No. You know, it's I think, and then I look back and say, I think it's a kind of a very American mindset, you know, that I got you. So give me something in return. Exactly. You see? And they couldn't believe that I actually wanted to help them improve their journalism.

Adesoji Iginla (55:40.142)
was just writing, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (55:56.462)
Yeah, payments.

Milton Allimadi (56:08.084)
And that has been very similar since then. The book is now out, but the book, my own publisher, is no longer promoting my own book, you see? And anybody can speculate as to, you know, what happened. The book was doing very well when it came out. I know because I was getting very decent royalty checks, right? And if I'm getting a decent amount, it means the public is getting a much bigger amount, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (56:18.954)
Let that sink in.

Adesoji Iginla (56:33.838)
They are selling the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (56:37.396)
And now as you yourself know, many people, including yourself, you order the book and you wait for months. You don't get a copy of the book, right? Some people get it months later. Some people never get that copy of the book. Think about it.

Adesoji Iginla (56:45.166)
for months before you get it.

Adesoji Iginla (56:50.926)
And so people get, they get the electronic copies with pages missing.

Milton Allimadi (56:55.604)
Think about that. I, obviously, they never reviewed it, even though somebody told me, you know, I write for the review section, send it to so and so. You know, I sent it, never heard. But it's fine. So this is the challenge of us countering this propaganda. And you can't hide knowledge from people, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (57:14.894)
doing this work.

Milton Allimadi (57:23.956)
So as you know, I'm in the process of trying to get back my copyright. They want me to buy it. So, you know, I'll buy it back from them and I'll make sure that this work is widely disseminated no matter how long it takes, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (57:39.022)
I mean, I'm looking at my copy here, well beaten up. Still, it's a lesson in reading. It's how manufacturing hate, how Africa was demonized in Western media. You can go, you could get a copy on Amazon if you're lucky, but please try. It's, I mean, it's.

Milton Allimadi (57:55.348)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (57:59.86)
You'll wait for a long time.

Adesoji Iginla (58:04.238)
is well worth the wait because I mean it's a brilliant book to have and if you see my copies all written in you know so probably put that away.

Milton Allimadi (58:05.94)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (58:09.652)
Thank you, brother.

Milton Allimadi (58:14.164)
In fact, I want to get an Africa edition as well. I want an African publisher as well. It's very funny. Many years ago, I sent the manuscript, I forget his name, Taboombeki's brother, I believe it's his younger brother, and he was involved in publishing. I don't know if he's still a publisher. People can look up his name, Beki's brother, he's a publisher in South Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (58:22.446)
okay.

Milton Allimadi (58:43.732)
So I sent him the manuscript and I got a, I believe it was an email response. And he says something like, South Africa is sort of moving, something like moving in a different direction. yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (58:59.886)
No.

Adesoji Iginla (59:07.534)
What sort of direction? You're not focusing on factual news. You're moving in a different direction to where?

Milton Allimadi (59:16.18)
No, I guess my book would just, you know, because there's a section, actually there's a long section on South Africa as well. How the New York Times was like, you know, very accommodating to quoting officials during the apartheid era who are giving their racist spin on the need to maintain apartheid because the Africans were not used to that level of civilization and all that kind of nonsense.

Adesoji Iginla (59:19.534)
Stay, we will stay the honest nest.

Adesoji Iginla (59:24.494)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:30.861)
to the apartheid region, yeah. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (59:46.612)
So I guess he thought that rehashing that history was not what South Africa needed at that point in its history.

Adesoji Iginla (59:51.182)
It's.

It's chapter nine, the New York Times as an early apologist for apartheid. Again, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:00.308)
Right, right. Yeah, so we are still looking for the publisher for the African edition and the African.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:08.91)
Yes. So what is your take on who will eventually win the election?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:17.268)
Well, there are no elections really in Rwanda, but this is what I fear.

I fear because, you know, obviously the Constitution was amended. I'm not sure whether it has time limit. I think it does, but I think it did not apply to him. So he was allowed to run for another. So it was like, was amended, but then it became like fresh. I think you have two seven year terms, right? So seven years ago, as the Constitution was amended or the new Constitution.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:44.558)
So yeah, yeah, correct.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:51.892)
He became president for the first of the seven -year terms, meaning after this, he would be eligible. I think he is eligible to be president until 2034. Okay, so this is my concern. How are you going to transition away from the

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:57.262)
So seven years, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:04.11)
for another.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:20.884)
from this one person because as the article said, the article said in the Times the most troubling part is that the economic and political power is resolved, excuse me, for the ethnic Tutsi elite. That model is not sustainable, you know, when you comprise about 15 % of the population.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:24.718)
is 66.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:34.03)
Please, yeah.

to this.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:49.39)
A recipe for disaster.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:49.428)
It's not a sustainable model. So what will happen in the long run? You see, you can't just legislate and say we are not going to discuss issues of who to see. We are all one people. Okay, well and good that you're saying that and writing about that. But in practice, you know, in practice, if you're not, you know, putting that to practice.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:10.606)
But in practice, it isn't.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:19.316)
It means a potentially explosive situation is going to be bottled up for a long time and you cannot keep it corked perpetually. So that's my number one concern. How are you going to deal with these issues in the long run? You see?

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:37.806)
And so you think he will be defeated in this oncoming election?

Milton Allimadi (01:02:41.62)
no, of course not. He's an election that he has his manage. And that's part of the problem. That's the fear though, that once the country is down the line, it's not in a position where you are able to manage these elections. You cannot margin it perpetually because the fact of the matter is that none of us live forever. And by virtue of being around...

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:04.238)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:10.068)
at a particular historical moment in Rwanda's history, 1994, you were able to elevate yourself in a commanding position to use the argument, whether it's not 100 % accurate, but it's still a strong argument, that it is I who stopped this genocide. So I should be entitled to rule this country. And if I...

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:26.318)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:32.718)
which is factually incorrect.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:38.996)
tend to have a heavy hand and authoritarianism, it is far much better than what was before me, which was the genocide. So you can make that argument. So are you going to instigate another genocide so that somebody can make the same argument down the line? Of course not.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:43.15)
It's.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:49.838)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:02.068)
or should I not rule that out? You see? So how are you going to sustain it going forward? That's my number one worry. These superficial elections, you know, are not really that important. They're only important in the sense that it prolongs something that needs to.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:05.358)
That's it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:12.526)
and the area and the area where

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:19.534)
And the area where his country sits is also deeply problematic. You've got that corridor of constant flow of people and with real or imagined enemies, you know.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:35.38)
Correct. Actually, there is one solution, of course, which in fact, even I think it was Nyerere, whom I've suggested a long time ago.

And that would be an East African Federation.

because when you have a East African Federation, they're not going to be pitting Hutu and Tutsi. Now they're part of a broader federated East African region. And because one of the issues they have also is, of course, the issue, it is one of the most densely populated countries in the whole world. So they have the issue of the land strife and resources.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:54.862)
It rules out, yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:21.524)
but now they're part of a broader, larger Pan -African United Federated nation. Now you have freedom of movement relocate to other parts of the Federation, which is not as densely populated as Rwanda or Burundi. So ultimately, if it evolves that way, then of course, the concern that I'm expressing.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:23.534)
larger group larger grouping.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:51.476)
today, that's how it would be resolved down the line.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:55.726)
So speaking of large countries, we've got another neighbor of theirs to the north who's been in Turmoil for a while. And by that, I mean the Sudanese. Apparently, a Sudanese gathering outside the country proposes a third way. And for those who are...

not aware sudan has been going through turmoil 

So a Sudanese gathering outside the country proposes a third way, but the main forces may end up still end up in charge. Now, apparently, according to the economist,

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:17.806)
paper of money. A glimmer of hope was provided this week by ordinary Sudanese civilians rather than two armed forces battling for supremacy on the ground. On May 27, to the sound of joyous ululations, the coordinated bodies of the Democratic Civil Forces of Sudan, more snappily known as Tagadom began a four -day convention in Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia, chaired by Abdallah Hamdok.

Sudan's last civilian prime minister, Taghadam seeks to rally a wide coalition of Sudanese as possible to stop the civil war and return the country to civil rule. People from all 18 Sudan states were represented. Among the 25 delegations from Sudan's worldwide diaspora was a sprinkling of state saints. Another 30 delegates were from displaced people's camps.

A full 40 % of delegates were women. A similar proportion were counted as young, meaning under 45. The Tagadom had drawn support from some of Sudan's main political parties, such as the Umar, as well as a handful of armed groups that had so far been neutral in the war. The result was a headinisk, which merited Prestine Maki, a Canadian veteran of many peace negotiations in East Africa.

called this conference the most inclusive process he has ever witnessed. I will just end with this one. Mr. Hamdok, a former Sudanese, a former economist and the Tegadom leader said they want Sudan to be a secular democracy led by civilians. It can be looked as if they favor any group opposed to the SAF, which is the South African Armed Forces, which has its roots in the oppressive

Islamist regimes led by Omar

Milton Allimadi (01:11:15.092)
It's the Sudanese armed forces.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:17.486)
Sudanese armed forces, yeah, led, which has its roots in the oppressive Islamist regimes led by Omar El -Bashir from 1989 to 2019. So the reason I picked this story was I was fascinated by the agency being exercised by the Sudanese. And it's not often that you get the Western media, you know, showing these aspects. Yeah, so.

What's your take?

Milton Allimadi (01:11:48.788)
Well, I like it that they're doing that because for people that are not that familiar, when it comes to political organization, Sudanese civilians have always been way, way ahead of the game, right? The activist politics, organized union politics, they're as advanced as...

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:12.43)
unions.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:17.492)
One could say South Africa was, you know, during the struggle against apartheid. You could say that civil society is very organized as Senegal has always been, right? And the Sudanese have been like that. The Sudanese are one of the few places where civilians are organized and come on the streets and depose military regimes, including Omar Hassan Bashir's own military regime.

in 2018, of course. So the fact that they're able to organize a gathering like that, and I think the article mentioned 600 delegates, that's a lot of people that are constantly want to be right. I think it's at 40 % of attendees over want to play a role in salvaging their war torn country. And of course, the problem is,

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:58.83)
with women as well.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:16.404)
Well, there are a number of possibilities, right? The main obstacle are the leaders of the armed people engaged in the conflict right now, right? And the leader of the rapid, is it rapid response force?

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:35.63)
Rapid response from Hamedi.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:37.972)
Right, General Hamedi and General Burhan, who is the commander of the official national army. Right. So, so long as they're in command of their armed forces, the people gathering and meeting now in Ethiopia is very ironic. Ethiopia itself just, it's still, you know, at the tail end of its own civil war that just officially concluded.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:05.614)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:10.1)
So they can come up with all the agreements, the communiques and plans for the future, but so long as they cannot implement it on the ground because these two military commanders decimating the country, particularly the respite response force, you know, accused of, you know, genocidal Maccas massacres in parts of.

the areas that it's fighting to try to control or to take away from the National Armed Forces. Some of the killings based targeting on religion, on ethnicity, on skin color. It's just so horrific. So how are you going to neutralize these two elements? There's only one possible, you know.

path, which would be for the junior commanders, you know, to get rid of, you know, the top commanders to get rid of General Buhan and Hemeti, correct? And say that we are pledging our support to the civilian process that is ongoing in Addis Ababa. You know, that is our...

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:27.182)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:40.18)
preferable outcome if that can happen, right? Because even if you say, you know, we need outside forces to come and help us neutralize these commanders, how is that even going to happen in practice? Nobody wants to get involved in a bloody conflict like that if the armed parties are not willing, unless somehow...

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:42.702)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:05.23)
willing for.

Milton Allimadi (01:16:10.068)
a solution can be worked out where they would actually agree to cease fire and to eventually demobilize and allow peacekeepers to be involved. And the selling point being is that Burhan would not be have the capacity to try to eliminate Hamedi and vice versa. So none of them would have an advantage. And then of course,

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:35.086)
We're gonna fight to a stalemate. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:16:38.708)
it's highly unlikely that they could remain in the country. So each of them would have to accept exile and to leave the country and to designate new commanders of their factions and then of course to integrate them into one national army under the civilian command. That's another outcome. Otherwise, they're going to have this third force reaching, you know,

agreements that look very good on paper and then not being able to implement it on the ground. But they're doing the right thing. They're putting pressure on these two military generals. They're saying the option is not just Hamedi or Burhan. The option are people that don't have blood on their hands. So I think that should be their demand.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:31.662)
is the people. Yep. Facts.

Milton Allimadi (01:17:37.108)
ceasefire, agree to go into exile so that we can come and take administration on the ground. That's, you know, the question is, are they going to accept ceasefire? I guess maybe if they build enough momentum so that the countries that are now funding, and I think the article also implies that, are funding Buruhan and funding Hemeti, now the cost of funding them becomes exorbitant.

They can't do it anymore because of diplomatic and even effective sanctions against them, the threat of sanctions against them if they continue to fuel and finance and armed this war. So, you know, the more I think about what they're doing, I commend them. And I think it has the possibility of succeeding depending on the momentum it generates and the global support that it picks up. It's good to see that.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:11.086)
You're gonna make... Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:18:36.616)
a corporate outlet such as The Guardian, I mean, I'm sorry, The Economist is actually giving it some good play with the proper tone as well.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:41.55)
The Economist.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:46.286)
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I mean, that's the key. And for me, it's also hopefully it works because if it does, it becomes a template for any other world artist.

Milton Allimadi (01:19:00.116)
I agree with you. I'm glad you said that. It becomes a template for Cameroon. It becomes a template for many other parts of the world. Well, the Congo is a bit different because I think Kagame actually needs conflict in Eastern Congo. So long as he's president of Rwanda, he needs Congo's resources because...

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:10.35)
For even Congo. For even Congo.

Hehehehe.

Milton Allimadi (01:19:29.78)
as I think we discussed an article from the Financial Times where Congolese officials are saying Rwanda's economy benefits to the tune of one billion dollars in Congo's resources. That's a very significant chunk of the budget to just lose, you see? So, you know, that's when I...

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:55.278)
Of course, the whole has to be constantly plugged. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We started with a writer and I think it's important that we close. I think we should close with another one. And the story goes that Senegal is buying back the library of one Leopold Senghor.

Milton Allimadi (01:20:00.084)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:22.318)
So the article can be found in Radio France International on the Radio France International website. And it's titled, Senegal buys back library of poet president Leopold Senghor from France. There's a whole raft of history in this headline alone. More than 300 books collected by first president of independent Senegal, Leopold Senghor will be transferred to Dakar after the Senegalese

government stepped in to stop them being auctioned off in France. You can see an array of them. And in 34, 344, in total 344 volumes would leave the house in Normandy where Senghor spent the final 20 years of his life, several of them personally inscribed by authors including Martiniquan poet Amy Cesar. Along with Cesar's and other African

and Caribbean intellectuals. Senghor was one of the founders of the negritude black consciousness movement, deeply problematic, in 1930 Paris. We didn't want to see the collection split up, given it includes works that document the emergence of the negritude movement, said Celine Labroun Baddien, a historian who helped coordinate an international project to inventory

Senghor's archives. On the instructions of Senghor's heirs, his library was to go under the hammer at an auction house at the city of Caen in mid -April, divided into nearly 200 separate lots. But the newly elected president of Senegal, Basiru Diomai Faye, asked for the sale to be suspended while his government negotiated to buy the complete collection. What's your take? Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:22:17.044)
Well, it's very ironic, but of course I supported and endorsed it 100%. I'm happy the buyback. I'm happy to see that it's being done. Of course, the irony is that this is a former president who sort of had the reputation of not only aligning himself,

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:24.43)
The Bye -Back.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:28.27)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:36.686)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:22:46.644)
politically, very closely to the former colonial power of France, but also alleging the cultural affinity between the two nations almost to the detriment of celebrating our African history and culture. So.

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:14.542)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:23:15.956)
Of course, as you know, he later on became one of the most quote unquote conservative of the post -independence African presidents on the continent. You could say that he was seen as seen as the antithesis of Kwame Nkrumah, right? Where you have...

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:40.558)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:23:43.412)
Nkrumah being the African nationalist pan -african. Talk about African unity, taking control of our economy, our resources, which of course implies challenging Western dominance of Africa's destiny. But then on the other hand you have on the opposing pole a person like Senghor celebrating European culture which of course implies

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:57.678)
true.

Milton Allimadi (01:24:12.916)
acceptance of imperialism and saying that we can actually develop and benefit from this mutual relationship between Africa or between Senegal and France. And of course, it's really highly impossible to have mutual benefit when the economic relationship is one of exploita, you see. So,

Adesoji Iginla (01:24:37.486)
is skewed. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:24:42.932)
And it's ironic that as the article says, the last 20 years of his life after he stepped down as president, I believe it was in 1980 when he stepped down, the last 20 years of his life spent in France, not in his native country of Senegal. But so at this point, I do not take a harsh...

Adesoji Iginla (01:24:53.326)
from office.

correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:04.334)
Senegal.

Milton Allimadi (01:25:13.364)
view of him. I think his works are worth purchasing by the Senegalese state. Obviously, we have new leadership in Senegal, young leadership.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:15.534)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:30.318)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:25:33.748)
including the new president, Fayyar, who is more oriented to the KwaMEN's Nkrumah school of African politics, Pan -African unity, taking control of our resources, taking control of our sovereignty, and so forth. But he is looking at Senegal. He's looking at Africa. This is a true Pan -African. He's not playing petty politics.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:44.91)
leadership. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:26:03.412)
and saying, you know, the people who think saying, was a reactionary. He was a foundation for neocolonialism in Africa. No, he's looking beyond that. He's saying this was the first president of post -colonial Senegal. He was an intellectual. You cannot deny that. He was a poet. He was a.

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:14.446)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:26:30.547)
considered to be high caliber writer. So whether you agreed with him ideologically or not, it is worth purchasing his archives because, and this to me is the most important part of it all, his archives and his notes and his correspondences will actually explain to us what type of pressure he might have endured.

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:37.326)
or not, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:52.846)
his mindset.

Milton Allimadi (01:26:58.996)
in order to make some of the decisions that he ended up making. So I see very informative books and writings coming out of owning this archives. And of course, this is very important not only to Senegal itself, but to other African countries where academics, intellectuals and ordinary students want to learn the type of pressures that are post.

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:02.03)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:27:27.732)
colonial leaders endured and how is it that we ended up with the current type of African states that we have?

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:33.902)
Hmm. Hmm. And also, I would to buttress to add to what you said there. It's also not only just the motivation in the political side, but also on the intellectual side, why he chose to concoct something that doesn't exist on the continent that most of the intellectual class, the likes of Wole Sho Inka, the likes of

Ngugiwa Fiongo, Chino Achebe, push back upon. By that I mean the negative movement. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, he was the motivation behind Frantz Fanon writing Black Skin, White Mask. Because he, you, he, the finger was pointed and I, every time I read it, especially the introduction, you begin to understand, hmm.

These are the kind of people he was talking about.

Milton Allimadi (01:28:33.652)
Well, so the negative movement, I think it came under more disrepute much later. I think initially it was seen as something that was very welcome because they were promoting African writers, African poets, African arts. And then, of course, the criticism that came later was that they were trying to validate Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:28:39.246)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:29:01.422)
the French.

Milton Allimadi (01:29:02.868)
They're trying to say, okay, Europe, you've shown us all these works of art and literature and we can do it as well. And here's the proof, here are the examples. But then, of course, the people, the critique came from people that said, we don't need to validate, you know. We had empires before some European nations, including England, existed, you know. We built the civilization of Kemet, right, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:29:31.246)
Exactly.

Milton Allimadi (01:29:32.564)
Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Aksum, you know, Nubia, right? Meroe, right? Congo Empire, right? So we had it all. There's no need for us to validate ourselves with a movement, right? So you can see how when it first started, too many people had its appeal. And you can also see how the criticism that came later was also.

Adesoji Iginla (01:29:39.918)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:30:01.876)
justified.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:03.246)
Funny enough, you should mention Kemet, the foremost authority on the African continent. He's also Senegalese. Chekiata Diop. Who he undermined?

Milton Allimadi (01:30:11.508)
Of course, Anta Joop, and of course, Anta Joop was treated very shabbily. Absolutely. He was harassed. You know, he was politically persecuted, right? Rather than celebrating and saying, you know what, we have an African genius. Can you imagine if he had the support of the state, what he would have been able to accomplish?

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:18.638)
by him.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:29.038)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:37.71)
OOOO

Milton Allimadi (01:30:41.908)
You know, instead they're saying, why is this African wanting to introduce a Pan -African language? Why is he making our European friends uncomfortable by telling them that ancient Kemet was actually Black African? Why is he reminding them that Africans existed and then about 100 ,000 years ago they migrated to other parts of the world?

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:52.27)
Uncomfortable.

Milton Allimadi (01:31:10.228)
and over a period of 30 ,000 years through climactic and environmental adaptation, they became people that eventually were known as Europeans, Asians, and so on and so forth. Saint -Maur didn't like that he was teaching people this because it made his European friends uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, I support what the current government is doing in Senegal. I think that is as pan -African.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31:29.55)
And also the fact that, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:31:40.34)
as it gets. They're saying we're looking beyond our ideological differences with Senghor. His materials are going to enrich our collective knowledge, not only for Senegal but for Africa. So I support that 100%.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31:41.23)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31:51.374)
African conversation.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31:56.046)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, when I saw the article, not just as a love of books, it's also the fact that you read both the people you agree with and those you disagree with. So...

Milton Allimadi (01:32:10.516)
I agree. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then

Adesoji Iginla (01:32:29.774)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:32:39.086)
community.

Milton Allimadi (01:32:40.5)
For people that may not be familiar and that are just coming into knowledge of African history, the OAU, the Organization of African Unity was of course the first Pan -African organization created in 1963 by the leaders such as Juan Bencruma and so on. And that was replaced by the African Union in the year 2002. So I just wanted to mention that. But the fact that...

The AU headquarters is in Addis Ababa. To me, Addis Ababa would also be a good location for a pan -African museum and archives where each African country can donate some of their rich archival or artistic material. The best of the best. You know, some of the Benin art, right? The spectacular art. Why not donate a few of that to...

Adesoji Iginla (01:33:13.934)
for the African library.

Adesoji Iginla (01:33:30.99)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:33:36.5)
to that museum, you know. Some of the Congo, the art from the Congo, spectacular. Donate some of that. So each and every African, so you have an African section, you know, each. So when I walk into this magnificent museum in Addis, I can, you know, whether it's done by region, West Africa section, and then I find, you know, Ghana, Nigeria, you know, Gabon, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:33:38.606)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:33:45.774)
and the books.

Adesoji Iginla (01:34:05.358)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:34:06.068)
you name it, I think this is something that we as Pan -Africans need to support and let's start working on it, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:34:13.358)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that also the the notion that you now have a receptacle where you have all the works, not just cultural. I mean, if you just look, I was looking at the African writers series and the kind of authors that own their new wondering where all these books, you know, some of them now you struggle to.

Milton Allimadi (01:34:31.092)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:34:38.676)
Can you imagine an original of the original, original print of Things Fall Apart? Just have one encased in that museum, right? Original print of the palm wine drinker. Have that, you know. You know? No, we as intellectuals have to start advocating and campaigning for this Pan -African Museum. And then some of the work that is now being freed up.

Adesoji Iginla (01:34:52.398)
Yes.

by a most tutorial. Yeah. my God. Yeah. That is.

Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:35:08.852)
and return to the continent. Some you keep in your national museum, some, you know, loan it out to the Pan -African Museum in Addis Ababa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:35:19.534)
Yeah, and you know, and then that would also then probably, you know, generate curiosity on the path of whoever comes in contact with you there to actually visit the home place or wherever the art comes from.

Milton Allimadi (01:35:33.268)
Absolutely, and it would be a revenue generator. MoMA, the Met, the London Museum, you know, the Louvre in France, you know, in Paris, they generate tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars. And then many of the people that go there go to see African artifacts. So now we have one of the best collections on the African continent.

Adesoji Iginla (01:35:37.166)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:35:45.486)
virus.

Adesoji Iginla (01:36:01.294)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:36:03.188)
It's a source of revenue and that revenue since is upon African Museum with each African country being a shareholder. Some of that money could go to paying the dues of African nations to the African Union. People that don't pay their dues. In fact, they might have a surplus. You pay your dues and you actually get some money returned to you on an annual basis. Really, let's work for this idea. Sometimes we have to be creative. We can't just sit back.

and have others come and suggest these ideas for us.

Adesoji Iginla (01:36:34.19)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we still have some of our elders around and, you know, with them being the leading voices and we doing the groundwork, it's achievable. It's achievable. It's achievable. Again, I will thank you for coming through. Again, for those of you who like, who watch this, please like, share, subscribe.

And yeah, bring others to the fold. We hope to continue to do this. It's the African News Review. Again, I have my eminent guest here, comrade Milton Alimadi. And thank you for coming through. And any last words?

Milton Allimadi (01:37:20.66)
Aluta continua is somewhere on my shell, you used to like say. But let me tell you a very funny story. And you've heard this story. Aluta continua means the struggle continues. I forget the author of this book about Fela. So Fela was taking a flight. I think it was coming from a European country coming back to the continent. And on the plane, there were many liberation fighters. I think it's either from Angola or Mozambique. I think it was in Mozambique.

Adesoji Iginla (01:37:25.006)
Go.

Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:37:41.134)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (01:37:50.132)
And then they were saying, aluta continua, getting with fella. And fella said, what does that mean? And they said, the struggle continues. And the fella said, no, no, no, we can't be saying that. We should be saying the struggle must end, because that to me represents victory and liberation. So don't go around saying the struggle must continue. For now, I'll start saying the struggle must end. I love fella.

Adesoji Iginla (01:38:16.11)
OK, so yes, we will leave on a very happy note and say over to you. The struggle was end. Yes, thank you very much for coming through. And good night, everyone. And thank you.

Milton Allimadi (01:38:19.06)
Hahaha!

Okay, see you next week.