EP 10 The Predictable Debt Crisis in Africa I African News Review 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discussed various topics related to African news. They started by discussing the use of fallen heroes for campaigning in the US and the hypocrisy of former President Donald Trump. 

They then moved on to analyse an article from the Financial Times about middle power competition in Africa, highlighting the importance of industrialisation for African countries. The conversation also covers the recent coup in Gabon and the involvement of France in African politics. 

They conclude by discussing Denmark's new African strategy and the ongoing struggle for African independence. The conversation explores the debt crisis in Africa and its catastrophic implications. It highlights the predictable nature of the crisis, as African countries continue to borrow without addressing the root cause of their inability to repay. 

The discussion emphasised the need for African countries to focus on industrialisation and self-sufficiency rather than relying on foreign aid and loans. It also touches on the role of Western countries and financial institutions in perpetuating Africa's dependency and the lack of respect shown towards the continent. 

They also called for African leaders to unite and negotiate better terms for debt repayment.

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.326)
Good day everyone and welcome again to another in our series of African News Review. with me as my name, Adesuji Igengla. And with me as usual is our in -house analyst, an expert in itself, and an author, an explorer, publisher, Black Star News. I give you none other than Comrade Milton Alimati.

Milton Allimadi (00:30.064)
Thank you, thank you my brother, as always.

Adesoji Iginla (00:32.726)
And yes, this week has been very, very interesting, not the least on your side of the world, where the idea of falling heroes have become a hot potato issue in the sense that people are now using them for campaigning and the pushback has been, let me say, less than cordial. And it makes sad and grim reading that this is what we've come down to.

Milton Allimadi (00:43.654)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:02.318)
Yeah, particularly. Yeah, of course. Because first of all, this candidate, former president Trump is a very nasty person. Remember what he said about the late Senator McCain. Obviously, McCain, a Republican senator, I didn't really share much or agree with many of his views. But at one time, he was a soldier in the US Army. He fought in Vietnam.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02.363)
your initial assessment on that.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14.178)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22.262)
it

Mm

Milton Allimadi (01:32.858)
He was, his plane was shot down. It was captured. He was tortured. Obviously that was a war of imperialism. So of course I opposed that war in itself, but that's not what I'm discussing now. I'm the fact that he was captured and tortured. And then you have Trump. When Trump was running for the first time, said, McCain is not his hero because his heroes are soldiers who are not captured.

Adesoji Iginla (01:41.31)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:46.966)
is humanity.

Adesoji Iginla (02:01.984)
Not captured. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (02:03.228)
Think about that. And now this same guy is posting, is disposing for photographs at a national cemetery, mostly for soldiers, to use it for his campaign.

Adesoji Iginla (02:10.559)
info next to a headstone next to a yeah next to a headstone which is thumb up

Milton Allimadi (02:18.478)
It does not get any more nasty than that. That's why I call him a nasty human being.

Adesoji Iginla (02:28.749)
Well, well, coming back home, by that I mean going back to the continent. We've been in the news and as usual with the Western slant. And so for our first story, we go to the Financial Times, which seems to have an issue with Kidunot, the

Milton Allimadi (02:34.79)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (02:53.654)
so -called middle powers. Okay, so our first story comes from the Financial Times and it's titled, The Middle Power Competition in Africa. The jostle for influence brings opportunity but also scope for bad decisions. It's written by the editorial board. And so we take it this is the position of the mouthpiece for capital.

It starts, Africa has rarely been at the top of the world agenda. But in spite of its lack of obvious economic or strategic clout, many African nations are being courted by countries as varied as Turkey, Brazil, and Russia. The interest of such middle powers reflected in sprouting Turkish embassies, swanky African summits, and high profile visits, presents African leaders with

greater choices on investment and strategic partners. As a Financial Times series has reported, this pick and mix world creates opportunity that, if cleverly exploited, helps countries break free of poverty. This will strike better deals on vital infrastructural projects or insist that commodity deals be accompanied by domestic processing of raw materials. I'll stop there.

Milton Allimadi (04:17.318)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:17.558)
Why do you think all of a sudden they're a bit interested in Africa's well -being? By that I mean the money of capital. Because if you follow that line there, they will strike better deal on vital infrastructure projects or insist that commodity deals be accompanied by domestic processing of raw materials.

Milton Allimadi (04:27.63)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (04:42.948)
Right. So everything except the first sentence is actually correct. It's correct, but it's not complete. Africa has never been on top of the global agenda. That, of course, is a complete lie. Africa has always been number one on the global agenda. And that is what led to enslavement of millions of Africa. That's what led for colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (04:49.314)
you

Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (05:09.752)
colonialism.

Milton Allimadi (05:12.954)
And that's why neo -colonialism persists. And that is why we still have institutions like the World Bank, IMF, and the World Trade Organization to keep Africa impoverished so that the former colonial powers, primarily Britain, France, Belgium, and the new global power, the United States, can continue to exploit Africa.

the way Africa has been exploited for centuries. So that is a complete lie. And of course, the first lie followed by that it has a lack of obvious economic cloud, which, you know, the irony is that the rest of the article goes on to contradict that second sentence. The rest of the article is spent on showing Africa's economic cloud. So, you know, I don't know whether the

Adesoji Iginla (06:00.792)
You

Adesoji Iginla (06:08.398)
Exactly.

Milton Allimadi (06:11.452)
editor slept upside down on his bed or her bed or hit their head when they woke up. I have no idea. Yeah. But I think the article actually, essentially 90 or 95 % of it is correct. It just leaves out one crucial element, which is industrialization. Industrialization is not going to be brought by

Adesoji Iginla (06:18.988)
Okay, I'll go.

Milton Allimadi (06:39.558)
trying to be clever, trying to get more for your raw materials, trying to get more of the processing of the materials done in African countries. Industrialization is a national concerted policy and the Financial Times knows it. That's how Britain became industrialized, how the United States become industrialized. That's how the United States still maintains its advantage, you know.

On one side of the mouth they talk about free trade. The other side they talk about tariffs all the time. They're always on a tariff war, particularly with China, of course. Yeah, because they don't so much mind Europeans benefiting and growing their economies. They're worried about China because Chinese are not Europeans. So the racism

Adesoji Iginla (07:18.466)
Yep. Yep.

with China, yep.

Milton Allimadi (07:40.316)
Yeah, it becomes paramount when dealing with China. When dealing in Africa, it's a sense of paternalism because these countries remain small divided Balkanized countries. They would take Africa very seriously. If African countries started practicing what Krumah preached in neocolonialism, the last stage of imperialism, which of course is the

Adesoji Iginla (07:41.102)
permits

Adesoji Iginla (08:06.062)
stage of imperialism.

Milton Allimadi (08:09.862)
could be a bible on African liberation.

Adesoji Iginla (08:11.614)
my god. That's the

Milton Allimadi (08:13.542)
There you go. It is the blueprint in fact that led to the formation of the African Free Trade Continental Agreement. If you read Nkrumah's book and you read the agreement, you'll see that it's just an elaboration of Nkrumah's book.

Adesoji Iginla (08:33.569)
Yeah, there is also a part that stood out to me there, which is you could strike better deals on vital infrastructural projects and insist that commodity be accompanied by domestic processing of raw materials. When you speak of paternalism, I want to read from The Future That Works, selected writing by A Badu.

Milton Allimadi (08:48.432)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (08:57.104)
Yes. Babu was another version of Walter Rodney. And of course, that's the reason why he wrote the post -script to Rodney's How You Don't Find a Developed Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (09:06.062)
I developed Africa. Okay, so I'm taking a part from an open letter he wrote to Prime Minister Mugabe in the New African on May 2, 1980. He says, and I'll just read the poignant part here, the enemies of Africa are anxious to prove that every new African country is doomed to failure to ensure this does not take place.

They will want to entangle you deeply in their world system so to destroy you. Proof? Look at what is happening in practically all sister countries. Economic chaos, shortage of food, other basic necessities, corruption, and so on is the order of the day. You as a revolutionary will be a special target, particularly because of Zimbabwe's proximity to South Africa.

And I'll end with the last bit here. Unlike many developing countries, are going over, you're taking over a country with considerable potential. Let me give you some comparable statistics. Kenya, a fairly prosperous, it proves prosperous in inverted commas, has doubled the population of Zimbabwe, 14 million to your 7 million as of then, and yet its gross national product is only 2 .9

Milton Allimadi (10:15.856)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (10:34.222)
million, 2 .9 billion, compared to your 3 .5 billion, that is the 1976 World Bank figures, or a percentage capital income of 220 to your $550. Incidentally, when the bourgeoisie took over France in 1792, the country per capital income was just over 500. Zimbabwe has a fairly solid

industrial base, most of which was made possible thanks to the sanctions which forced the country to look inward. It was what he might call a blessing in disguise. Looking back, one wishes that sanctions had been imposed on all African countries soon after independence.

Milton Allimadi (11:14.458)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (11:18.704)
Yes. Yes. I agree with that assessment totally because it would have forced them to do exactly what he's saying. What is what the racist apartheid regime in what was then called Rhodesia had to do, which was to really look within itself to produce, which is what South Africa had done during the era of colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (11:35.64)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:48.028)
and then apartheid colonialism, which lasted until the first free election in 1994. You see? So I agree with that assessment totally. And actually, Mugabe actually listened to his advice for a long time, because part of the advice was that don't be too quick to nationalize the land. Do it gradually. Make sure that Africans

Adesoji Iginla (12:14.648)
Gradually.

Milton Allimadi (12:17.53)
gain incremental expertise, then of course, you know, the money promise never came. And that's why, you know, it's so funny because Mugabe initially was criticized by revolutionaries as not going all the way. Right. And then when he went radical and naturalized the land and took the land that had been stolen by the Europeans and gave it back to Africans, again, it was criticized.

Adesoji Iginla (12:24.855)
You

Adesoji Iginla (12:31.778)
Yeah, I'll be.

Milton Allimadi (12:46.822)
for destroying. Yeah, so he was in a no -win situation.

Adesoji Iginla (12:48.952)
the economy base.

Adesoji Iginla (12:55.148)
And for those who want to know which book I quoted from, it's The Future That Works by A Badu.

Milton Allimadi (13:02.554)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (13:06.047)
And,

Milton Allimadi (13:06.07)
And of course, Babu was a former minister in Tanzania, a minister of economic planning, then had a falling out with Mali Modules Nyerere, because he was considered by the West to be too radical. In fact, they put pressure on Nyerere to get rid of Babu.

Adesoji Iginla (13:12.224)
yes julia zinera yes

Adesoji Iginla (13:26.195)
Yes, and putting question of pressures to get rid of someone, we go to Gabon for our next story, which is the issue of the palatable coup, as we will put it. Gabon moves to us, and this comes from the Deutsche Welle. This is the German outreach organization in Africa, the press organization.

Milton Allimadi (13:42.524)
You're right.

Milton Allimadi (13:48.924)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (13:52.816)
Okay, now that you have put it in that context, before you proceed.

Adesoji Iginla (13:56.781)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (13:58.742)
And I like that we are constantly critiquing the media of those that want to dominate Africa. At the same time, it would be good if we had a global African media that we could compare and say, look at how, you know, global Africa covered the same news.

Adesoji Iginla (14:27.255)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (14:27.556)
And that is also in itself a sad statement. But until we have that, we will continue critiquing them without being able to compare them with how it's being covered elsewhere. Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (14:39.266)
we would have reported since, yeah.

Okay, so I go back. It's been one year, so titled, it's headed up, Gabon moves towards democracy, one year after coup. It has been one year since Gabon's military ousted the authoritarian President Ali Bongo. Keyword. The new junta has promised a swift return to constitutional order, sparking hope that the worst was behind it. But is it?

Francophone Africa has experienced a series of coups since 2020 in Mali twice, followed by Guinea, Burkina Faso, Niger and Fahling Gabor. The coups raised concerns about the stability and democracy in the region. In an interview with Doge Vela, Ngo Badoeurek from the Korad Adenio Foundation, affiliated with the German opposition party, the Christian Democratic Union of Germany, explained that while in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger,

duly elected presidents were ousted from power by power hungry military leaders taking advantage of a general sense of insecurity. The military government in Gabon appeared to have ousted an autocratic despot. Let's hold on there first. That is a big lie. And the reason why I say that was a lie was

When Omabongo was ousted, they had just recently completed their presidential election.

Adesoji Iginla (16:18.464)
So how is it that on one hand you can condemn the military government in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger and on the other hand appear to give

the autocratic government in Gabon, a pass. I wonder what they all have in common that Gabon doesn't have. Or what Gabon has that the rest of them don't have.

Milton Allimadi (16:46.587)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (16:55.354)
Well, this was their coup and the article exposes itself when it says that this guy Nguema, the interim military ruler, was hosted at the LSA palace in Paris by President Emmanuel Macron.

Adesoji Iginla (16:57.954)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (17:07.147)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (17:21.109)
You

Adesoji Iginla (17:24.492)
Macron.

Milton Allimadi (17:25.158)
Macron. So that itself just exposes the story. This is a French manufactured coup d 'etat against a despot who had become inconvenient. A despot who might have invited a much more radical coup d 'etat. So the coup d 'etat was meant to preempt

Adesoji Iginla (17:35.36)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (17:53.57)
a coup d 'etat similar to, you know, Faso's to Mali's and to Niger. Where with what's common among those countries is to push out French influence and to invite Russian influence, which of course, you know, I personally oppose. But given the lack of military capacity, lack of

production of weapons themselves, they see Russia as a less imperial intervention than France. So in order to preempt something like that happening in Gabon, and as I said, this particular coup I think was an intermediate coup, there's no assurance that there will not be a much more radical coup d 'etat.

Adesoji Iginla (18:46.199)
You

Adesoji Iginla (18:52.771)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (18:52.962)
in Gabon and France is trying to prevent that. First of all, the headline itself is a lie. Gabon moves towards democracy one year after coup. The implication is that elections translates automatically into democracy, which of course is a complete fallacy and that has been demonstrated in Gabon itself, you know, many times, right?

Adesoji Iginla (19:10.504)
into democracy, which is a fallacy.

Adesoji Iginla (19:18.281)
Hahaha!

Milton Allimadi (19:22.864)
There are encouraging elements in the story. They encourage them in the sense that they talk about coming to an agreement that there should be presidential time limits, two time limits of seven years, which is fine. But to me, the focus in all of these countries need to be on what they need to do to transform their economies. Ultimately, at the end of the day,

It is whether you're able to produce and to feed your people that is going to determine the longevity of the structure. I'm sure the people in Burkina Faso, when Tomas and Kara came to power, I'm sure they had been acclimatized, they've been socialized in their minds, democracy.

translates into elections and preferably you have time limits and preferably this is carried out so you have a transition from power one group to another, one individual to another individual. But Sankara was also able to demonstrate and of course they did not have that in Bukina Faso which was upper Volta. But what Sankara was able to do was to show that they in fact

Adesoji Iginla (20:43.179)
But we can't afford it.

Milton Allimadi (20:50.5)
is a much more important conversation that African countries need to have, which is to what extent do ordinary people participate in the political process, number one. To what extent do they participate in production? And of course, our countries are not industrialized. So production is going to be agricultural, right? And in Burkina Faso, you had all these

feudal land holdings and imagine it was that which was actually blocking the country to become self -sufficient in food. So, Sankara ended that and within three years, think about it, the country was self -sufficient in food. So now, if you ask me

Adesoji Iginla (21:23.724)
as stated by the French.

Adesoji Iginla (21:40.184)
production. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (21:45.03)
to pick my choice of definition of democracy. Would I pick Sankara's making Bukina Faso, the Bukinabe, participate and produce enough to feed themselves? Or the people of Gabon are going to vote in some election in a couple of months? Which one would I pick? Of course I would pick what Sankara did for Bukina Faso.

So we have to be very careful. know, let's not fall into that trap when they keep talking democracy, democracy. What do they really mean? Are we satisfied that we have elections, we have regular transition? Is that sufficient? No. If there's no production and we keep maintaining neocolonialism, I would rather go with Sankalop's model anytime.

Adesoji Iginla (22:42.252)
And I think what this article also is careful to hide is also the underlying intent behind the coup, like you were speaking to earlier, was it was not so much as a radical element, but actually the fear of some of their own international partners coming in because Omabongo had been moving towards the Americans. And here is a country that is rich

Milton Allimadi (23:09.542)
Yeah. Ali, it sounded Ali rather.

Adesoji Iginla (23:12.458)
yeah, Ali Bongo, sorry, who had been moving towards the Americans. And you're talking about a country with oil reserves and gas. If the French were to lose that, that's curtains for them. So true, true, true,

Milton Allimadi (23:17.412)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (23:23.259)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (23:29.7)
Right. And they may still lose it anyway. Because the pressure is now regional. You cannot be a sanction. You cannot be, you cannot really be this one outpost of neocolonialism when all your regional partners are moving in a different direction. You know, it be very difficult to survive, you know. It would be like you wanting to be apartheid in what was Rhodesia.

Adesoji Iginla (23:37.452)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:47.998)
of exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (23:57.646)
Around you. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (23:58.148)
where every African country around you is being liberated or apartheid in South Africa, you see? It is completely incongruous. So the French are really trying to block the leak in the dam with a finger, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (24:13.038)
Hmm, with the finger, Spartan. So I would, there's a lot, there's a part here that stood out to me. 50 years of Bongo's dynasty. For over half a century, the Bongo family used otterterian methods to cling to power and the resource -rich Gabon. Omar Bongo was president from 1967 until he died in 2009. He's 40.

His 41 years in office was one of the longest of any head of state in Africa and he was succeeded in office by his son Ali Bongo. The Bongo clan long reign and autocratic rule led to widespread dissatisfaction. Now there is one part here that is kind of painful to read. On 26th of August 2023, Gabon held another election official results certified a

A clear victory for Bongo, which was hoping to extend the family rule to 55 years. Hardly anyone in the country considered the results credible. Four years later, he was toppled. Yeah. By his cousin. Now, the part that stood out to me there is, this is like you said, an in -house coup because it was toppled by his cousin. So was to argue against the fact that it is the Bongo rule continued.

but under a different franchise.

Milton Allimadi (25:42.14)
Correct. And that's exactly what it is. And they made that to dupe readers whose eyes are not yet open. They dupe them by leaving out in the parts that you read the one paragraph and then another sentence. When they say he was there for 41 years.

Adesoji Iginla (25:53.88)
Pewd.

Milton Allimadi (26:10.844)
authoritarian or autocratic or what have you they left out Three very critical sentences which is with For actually with the support five with the support of France You know You know, so it's amazing how you know completely disingenuous and obviously I mean I

Adesoji Iginla (26:30.786)
You

Milton Allimadi (26:40.62)
Generally, I respect Dwech Ewele. I do, but not in this particular article. That was a very glaring omission, which goes back to what you suggested in the beginning, which of course is to push this agenda that this is more or less a noble coup d 'etat compared to the one in Burkina, the one in Mali, and the one in Niger.

Adesoji Iginla (26:44.467)
Nah.

Adesoji Iginla (26:52.067)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (27:09.728)
It will be...

Milton Allimadi (27:09.776)
Was Bongo surviving by himself? Who was buying the oil and gas from Bongo? Who was training his armed forces? Who had troops stationed in Gabon? Who was giving him the weapon? know? Mind -boggling. We are supposed to be very foolish. You know? Like children when they write these things. You know?

Adesoji Iginla (27:24.002)
Gabon.

Adesoji Iginla (27:27.894)
you to be interested in it.

Adesoji Iginla (27:36.706)
Let's even go one step further.

I can bet you France was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

Milton Allimadi (27:47.385)
I think it was mentioned in a Fever of Moonlight at some point.

Adesoji Iginla (27:50.614)
Okay, here we go. So we've not had France yet. This is the second, this is third page of five pages. Where? France. There is not that.

Milton Allimadi (28:03.194)
Okay, there you go. You just passed it. Look at the last paragraph.

Adesoji Iginla (28:08.522)
Okay, yes. Despite this fair's traditional ruler, Oligwen Nguema had repeatedly affirmed that he would stick to his mandate with his assurances. He ensured Ghana suspended, okay, which was reinstated France, okay, yeah, with military honors. okay. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (28:25.508)
Yep, you see, which confirms the purpose of this story to sanitize the coup d And I would not be surprised if this man entertained with military honors come election time, is going to take off his uniform and resign from the armed forces and run for election himself and become a quote unquote civilian president.

Adesoji Iginla (28:37.452)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (28:48.434)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (28:51.81)
President democratically.

Milton Allimadi (28:53.82)
I think that's what they're already preparing for by inviting him to, you know, exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (29:00.308)
democratically elected, of course. So speaking of democratically elected heads of state, the Danish are not too particular about what is going on in Sahel. And so they've opted out in a new African strategy. And this one comes, this story comes from Radio France International.

So Denmark's new African strategy sees the closure of embassies in Mali, Burkina Faso. Denmark said on Monday, said Monday it was shutting its embassy in Mali and Burkina Faso as part of its new Africa strategies as military coups have severely limited the scope for action in the Sahel region. I don't know what action means. However, the Scandinavian country said it will open embassies in Senegal.

Tunisia and Rwanda. okay. Interesting. Denmark has said it will bolster diplomatic staff at its embassies in Egypt, Kenya, South Africa, Nigeria and Ghana. Following the closures in Bamako and Ugodugu, a special representative will be appointed for the African Great Lakes and Sahel region, said. Mali has turned to Russia and its Wagner mercenary group for support since military leaders seized power.

in 2020 and 2022 respectively. Mali's relation with European countries has deteriorated recently. Earlier this month, the military junta ordered the Swedish ambassador to leave the country after a Swedish minister criticized Mali's support for Russia.

And yeah, this part. Danish Foreign Minister Lars Rammussen said his country's reorganization of priorities in Africa came as Denmark and the European Union aimed to be Africa's preferred partner as the continent faced whether to orient itself towards the East or the West. Before you go, could you tell the viewers what was the

Adesoji Iginla (31:15.182)
major reason for the 1955 Bandung conference. Based on that last sentence there, as the continent faced whether to orient itself more towards the East or the West.

Milton Allimadi (31:31.802)
Right, actually.

Yes, the Bandung Conference, of course, was following World War II when it became clear that the old empires had lost their power and would no longer be able to hold on to the territories that they formerly had colonized, including in Africa. So the leading countries...

including China, including India, including Yugoslavia, Ghana sent a representative. think it's somewhere, in some places it's misreported, then Puma also attended. I think it's sent a foreign minister. So, of course, they were talking about

what became later on actually the non -aligned movement that we should not be the choice should not just be East versus West read by the United States. And obviously it was easier said than accomplished because they did not really give you that choice. And the main battleground, if one of the earliest battlegrounds was Congo, of course, you know,

Adesoji Iginla (32:40.854)
or West.

Adesoji Iginla (32:54.786)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (33:02.306)
and still remains the battleground.

Milton Allimadi (33:04.22)
amazing battleground today. Where the Congolese, fact, Patrice Lumumba, course, initially, the first place he visited was the United States, know, trying to get assistance. And when it became clear he was not going to get it, then he...

Adesoji Iginla (33:20.162)
He pivoted. Or threatened to pivot.

Milton Allimadi (33:22.748)
He didn't even get a chance really. He reached out to the Soviet Union and they used that as an excuse to crush him. Right? So that was 1960. Now we are in 2024. Think about it. This article is talking, is basically telling us that nothing has changed. Africa is still...

Adesoji Iginla (33:29.452)
as a codger. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (33:41.445)
That's Deep Man Comes Up Again.

Milton Allimadi (33:52.316)
you know, like a game preserve where you go hunting for game, for animals. And the hunters, you know, either now, of course, not the Soviet Union, now it's Russia, but pretty much the same geographical demarcations, right? You know, which was the case in 1960. So that...

Adesoji Iginla (34:00.396)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (34:13.025)
Yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (34:21.774)
is very telling that after all these years of so -called independence, Africa is not yet able to determine its own destiny. And any African who tries to become active in determining the destiny of his country, like Thomas Sankara, is eliminated. In the case of Niger, Mali,

and we can also, they're isolated or they subjected to critical media. And that is what's going on in this article. And it's sad because countries like Denmark in the past that not been hostile toward African aspirations. They did not go right.

Adesoji Iginla (35:15.512)
Yeah, yeah, supported the liberation movement.

Milton Allimadi (35:20.144)
hand lock and step with the United States. Yeah, and that seems to be what this article is declaring that this is what Danish officials are saying. And also, the most insulting part is when it talks about the aid than Denmark. You know, because first of all, it's a country of

Adesoji Iginla (35:37.227)
You

Milton Allimadi (35:49.084)
6 million people. So population -wise, very negligible, insignificant. But it does have financial resources. GDP almost over 400 billion. So compared to a country like Mali, which is under 20 billion, you can see it has possibilities of really assisting. But assisting, to me,

can only come in one form, which is of course, what was mentioned in the Financial Times article, to process the materials in Africa. In other words, to industrialize. And none of them are considering something that they are actually all talking about perpetuating dependency. And that is what they call aid. And in case of Denmark, the aid itself is so negligible. I don't even know why they deserve

Adesoji Iginla (36:24.942)
Okay, zero.

Milton Allimadi (36:48.156)
whole article such as this I think is less than 200 million dollars 200 million dollar you know LeBron James could cut that check that's what Denmark is giving to the entire continent right the Brown James the other day cut a check for 40 million for scholarships and Denmark is boasting that I think

Adesoji Iginla (37:11.234)
million lund dollars yeah

Adesoji Iginla (37:17.998)
for a population of 1 .3 billion.

Milton Allimadi (37:18.556)
This year, it gave to Africa this year alone as if it were so significant. I think it's something like $75 million. That's just mind boggling. But at the same time, it shows how we are treated, you see? And unless you deserve to be respected, there's no reason why you should be respected. You earn it.

Adesoji Iginla (37:32.578)
Ha ha!

Adesoji Iginla (37:36.871)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (37:49.402)
China may be detested by the leadership in many Western countries, but China is respected. It is much more important to be respected and taken seriously when it comes to dealing with these Western countries than to be tolerated or, you know, this condescending, paternalistic attitude which they have toward Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (37:56.439)
course.

Adesoji Iginla (38:16.108)
I mean, is pattern, it is pattern, it is patternalistic, like you said, that Denmark of all the countries, all the Nordic countries, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden used to support all the liberation movements in the 70s and 80s. And to now, okay, Denmark is part of NATO, yes. And now to now start championing that same ideology makes

Milton Allimadi (38:20.452)
huh.

Milton Allimadi (38:30.406)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (38:43.098)
Yeah, the same narrative, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (38:44.99)
Yes, makes, you know, makes grim reading,

Milton Allimadi (38:47.694)
when in fact many of those countries were very proud of their independent policy when it came to dealing with the United States. But Africans do not deserve to have an independent policy.

Adesoji Iginla (38:55.203)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (38:58.402)
Yep, yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (39:04.116)
just mind -boggling. But understandable, at the end of the day, even the so -called ones who are friends of Africa, at the end of the day, they're also imperialistic, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (39:05.6)
It is, it is.

Adesoji Iginla (39:17.282)
Hmm. And it's not helped by the fact that the kind of leaders we have are not caught of the old cloth.

Milton Allimadi (39:26.253)
Absolutely.

As I said, you know, you will be respected when you deserve to be respected. You know, if you don't respect them, it will not be surprising that Denmark and these other countries will not respect them too.

Adesoji Iginla (39:37.292)
You

Adesoji Iginla (39:40.899)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (39:45.912)
Well, speaking of respect, a debtor is not often respected. And so we go to the New York Times for our next year paper of choice. We go to the New York Times for the next story, which reads, Africa's debt crisis has catastrophic implications for the world. The lead says, crushing obligations to foreign creditors.

Milton Allimadi (39:58.768)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (40:12.984)
that have few precedents have sapped numerous African nations of growth and stoked instability. Written by Patricia Cohen. After a new tax increase incited weeks of deadly riots in Kenya earlier this summer, President William Ruto announced that he was reversing calls. He abandoned the finance law he had proposed and then shook up his cabinet. Last week, the government reversed itself again. The newly appointed

Finance Minister announced that some of those discarded tax increases would be reintroduced. The Ruto administration is desperately trying to raise revenue to pay off billions of dollars in public debt and avoid defaulting on its loans, even as critical public assistance and services are being cut. Government throughout Africa are facing the same dilemma. The continent's foreign debt reached over 1 .1 trillion at the end of last year.

More than two dozen countries have excessive debt or are at high risk of it, according to the African Development Bank Group, and roughly 500 -900 million people live in countries that are spending more on interest payments than health or health care or education. Okay. Outside debt has a familiar problem in the developing world, but the current crisis is considered the worst yet because of the amount owed

as as the huge increases in number and types of foreign creditors. And in Africa, a continent pulsating with potential and peril, death overshadows nearly everything that happens.

Milton Allimadi (41:54.48)
Okay, so a number of points and not too many. The article, this part you read is worthy, it's overworthy for what it's trying to say. Number one.

Adesoji Iginla (42:04.81)
You

Milton Allimadi (42:12.25)
And this is where we need to read very carefully as African people. The headline makes some reference to Africa's debt crisis. There's no crisis in Africa about the debt situation. There's a bigger crisis, and I'll tell you what that crisis is. And we've been talking about it all along so far.

How do you determine what is a crisis? If I tell you that, okay, my brother, I'm not going to eat for 10 days.

Milton Allimadi (42:52.316)
or two weeks. And then in two weeks you come and you say, Milstone has a crisis.

Adesoji Iginla (42:53.148)
yeah that's worrying that's worrying question would be why

Milton Allimadi (43:06.492)
preposterous. How can I have a crisis when you knew that if I don't eat for 10 days or two weeks something is going to happen, right?

Adesoji Iginla (43:15.854)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (43:18.16)
So how could that be a crisis when it was so predictable?

So why do they always constantly keep referring to the debt crisis in Africa? As if it's something that is happening for the first time.

How can it still be a crisis when it's so predictable? It's built into the formula, right? If I don't eat for 10 days, two weeks, I may die. Maybe it will take three weeks, but I'll die. It is so predictable that it should not be called a crisis. Milton wanted to commit suicide. He was determined to die, so he decided not to eat.

Adesoji Iginla (43:37.624)
system. Yeah. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (44:03.258)
You don't produce in Africa. You import.

So how can you say it's a crisis when you borrow? If you don't produce and you're still importing, obviously the money must come from somewhere, right?

Adesoji Iginla (44:26.99)
True, true, true.

Milton Allimadi (44:29.422)
It's so predictable that you're going to borrow the money from somewhere. And since we know you're not producing, isn't it obvious that you're not going to be able to pay? So tell me where the crisis is in this scenario. In other words, Africa is a living, walking, breathing crisis. That's what you're telling me. Or it's not a crisis because we know the outcome already.

The crisis in every one of these African countries is a lack of the capacity to produce.

It's like if you say each and every African country is not going to eat, each and every African country is going to die just like I would die if I don't eat too. So let's stop calling it crisis. Let's stop acting as if we are surprised. So the article says what makes this one special and much more worrisome is the amount. As if it were if it was half of the amount, then things would be somehow better. Right.

Adesoji Iginla (45:33.581)
You

Milton Allimadi (45:36.124)
You know, what makes this one worrisome is that production is actually declining in many of these articles. There's a part where I think they say there was a lack of growth in GDP of over 1 % or something. That is the lead of the article. That should be the story. As a result of Africa not eating,

Adesoji Iginla (45:37.742)
Choo choo choo choo.

Adesoji Iginla (45:56.063)
Yes, yes.

Milton Allimadi (46:05.944)
Africa is dying. As a result of Africa not able to produce, Africa is getting mounting debt and not able to pay for the debt. Instead, you make the debt the lead of the article as if it's a behavioral problem, right? Like some sort of African psychosis. They have a tendency of not knowing how to manage borrowing and paying.

How can you manage it any better than you're managing it without changing one part of the equation, which is to produce more, right? And import less because you're producing, now you're producing the things you're, you're importing computers. Yes, of course, you want to be up with the technology. You don't want your citizens to be left behind. You are importing smartphones, which pretty much every African now has. You're importing pharmaceuticals.

Adesoji Iginla (46:44.425)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (47:05.402)
because you're not exploring and exploiting the traditional medicines that your ancestors have perfected over centuries. They knew which plants cured what and what and what. See? And yet you're still importing these pharmaceuticals in nice packages and all that. You're even importing those airports that your young people love. You can't produce that.

Adesoji Iginla (47:09.294)
Is it on? Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (47:14.552)
Thank you, Ruzia.

Adesoji Iginla (47:24.046)
placebo

Milton Allimadi (47:34.49)
you know, in Africa. That is the story that they should be doing, but they won't do because if they did that story, they would have to address many issues. Why is Africa not producing? because the World Bank is saying, if we give you money for this, you cannot use it for industrialization, right? No health care. In fact, let's forget about industrial Asia. Let's start with the basic. You're right. Health care, education.

Adesoji Iginla (47:35.823)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:51.66)
You cannot do this. No healthcare. No age.

Adesoji Iginla (48:03.692)
you can subsidize agriculture.

Milton Allimadi (48:04.74)
subsidized transport, know, which we know, you know, for in fact, let me give you an example. That just hit me in a big way. As you know, I am now attending Howard, doing the PhD program in history. So I said, let me look at in New York, I'm used to buying the Metro card, which allows me unlimited traveling for one week on the subway or on the bus, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (48:07.512)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (48:35.292)
And here in New York, we complain because it's $32 per week. And I'm sure it's a lot more in the UK. In the UK, probably just one or two days you spend $32. This is one week you can travel. If I want it, I can travel 10 times today on the subway. Go one route, get out, get in again. All day just travel. And the bus and that card, one week. Many people think, okay, it's high.

Adesoji Iginla (48:35.576)
Hope on.

Adesoji Iginla (48:45.09)
Y 'all will be numb.

Milton Allimadi (49:05.212)
I went to Washington, so I said, let me compare. In Washington, it's $72. So then I realized how New York must be subsidizing it substantially. And yet, the World Bank or IMF would not allow any African country to do things like that. In Nigeria, are they rolling back the subsidy on fuel? See? These are the kind of things. And these are the kind of things that

Adesoji Iginla (49:17.411)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (49:29.632)
Yes, unfro.

Milton Allimadi (49:34.96)
would have to be discussed in the article. And then you would then say, as a result of all these conditions imposed on Africa's economies and because they can't produce, therefore, this mounting debt. You can't just start with, this is the debt in Africa. And then never tell us why. So the why, they said, is because now,

Adesoji Iginla (49:42.306)
Rollbacks.

Adesoji Iginla (49:59.8)
You

Milton Allimadi (50:04.348)
There are many sources of borrowing. Now China is a major player. I think it gives us statistics saying China, for new debt in Kenya, China accounts for 73 % for borrowing. In Uganda, 72%. I think in Nigeria or some other country it was 80 something percent, right? That is the problem. And you know why they're doing that, right?

Adesoji Iginla (50:10.264)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (50:34.042)
because they were happy when the source of borrowing was from the West, IMF World Bank and private Western banks, Chase, Citibank, all these big barclays, Standard Bank, you know, because when you borrow, it means the lender is making money, not doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Adesoji Iginla (50:38.84)
from West exactly.

Paris club, London club.

Adesoji Iginla (50:56.262)
Hold that thought. There is a part of that article that jumped out at me. And this was it. Bermes II. It was something to do with its particular time in the last decade, which then jumped out like, okay, so what are you telling on yourself? Let me see. Where is it? is it? There is...

Let me see. Hold on. There it is. If I am not mistaken, was somewhere. It was. It was something to do with. Let me see. OK. It was in my notes when I was reading it. That's where I make. One quick one quick one quick.

Milton Allimadi (51:54.204)
And in terms of what you mentioned already, that Kenya is reversing some of those rollbacks, and you know it's not just Kenya waking up one day. Kenya is under tremendous pressure from the creditors.

Adesoji Iginla (51:59.746)
The... Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (52:09.4)
to live up to his responsibility.

Hmph. And I sat.

Milton Allimadi (52:14.288)
They being told how you're going to service the interest if you don't tax. And there's no answer to that. So Kenya has no choice.

Adesoji Iginla (52:19.33)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (52:22.99)
there is no amount of marching in the streets, you're going to have to pay this loan. This loan was taken out and, what is it? Let me see, move my country to fight. Essentially, what that part was, it was following the, in 2010, war transpired in 2010,

Loan sourcing was cheap. So they went out shopping to the African countries for them to take the loans. What was funny about that time piece was also that was the same time the US and the West have their financial crisis. So the money that was given to the banks was thrown towards those loans.

Those loans essentially was a way of pulling in resources from the likes of Africa and Asia in order for them to balance the books. Once those books were paid off to the government, because you had to ask the question, how come they got all these loans and they were able to pay them back so quickly? Only to now find that these loans are actually the private loans that have been given out to, what's it called?

the gain out to the African countries that they now want back. So it's not so much as country to country, but it's actually just financial institutions like the likes of the Paris Club, the London Club that are actually financing these loans. And sometimes some of these big banks are actually the faces of those loans.

Milton Allimadi (54:12.572)
No, they have no choice because that's how banks make money. People tend to forget that banks have to lend in order to make money. one. Number two, banks really don't want you to pay the loans back. Banks want you to service the interest. If the loans can be perpetual, that's exactly what banks want. I can't make money if I lend you money and then you pay me back next week. What is that? You know, I give you $100. You know, next week.

Adesoji Iginla (54:15.402)
Mm -hmm. Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (54:26.52)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:36.841)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (54:42.396)
So you know what, I'm paying you, in fact I'm giving you $150 back. That's nothing. I would rather you pay that 10 % interest perpetually. So my $100, in the end, I get up getting $1 ,000 from you for my $100, or even $10 ,000. That's the situation that persists in many African countries. Why was...

Adesoji Iginla (55:05.89)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (55:11.878)
Sankara killed. Sankara was killed for two reasons. One, his suggestion, which of course they could not meet, was that if we can, let's go to Washington, to the World Bank, and pay off all the money that we borrow, that we owe. First of all, those institutions would not like that, because that would just kill their model.

Adesoji Iginla (55:37.268)
It's not gonna... That's one.

Milton Allimadi (55:42.266)
how to, you know, as I said, banks make money by you serving the interest. And then number two, which was of course much more lethal and drastic, was the suggestion that we renounce the debt and collectively not pay. That cannot happen because you would collapse many banking institutions, you know. And obviously if you took that, first of all, if you take that position,

Adesoji Iginla (55:56.013)
debts.

Adesoji Iginla (56:05.144)
financial decisions, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (56:12.464)
you would be able to negotiate strong terms that would actually benefit you in the long run. So we started off with the article which said they should negotiate better conditions, have raw materials processed within the African countries. We started off with that article from the, I think it was Financial Times. Okay. Can you imagine?

Adesoji Iginla (56:38.112)
Have a nice day.

Milton Allimadi (56:42.14)
the concessions. Now we are told that Africa, the total debt is $1 .1 trillion. Mexico in the 1970s, it was on the front page of all these newspapers and magazines like Newsweek Time when Mexico's debt reached $100 billion.

Adesoji Iginla (56:48.322)
with one trillion dollars.

Adesoji Iginla (57:13.037)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (57:13.233)
Right?

And guess what? Mexico used it to its advantage. Mexico said, you know, because they came to Mexico and said, you know what, you guys, you have a problem. You owe us 100 billion. Then Mexico sort of squashed his head and said, you know what, you guys have a big problem. And they said to Mexico, what do you mean? He said, well.

Adesoji Iginla (57:35.747)
That's true.

Milton Allimadi (57:43.228)
We can't pay this money. We have to find a solution together. And the banks are like, what? And then they realized Mexico was correct. Now, which African leaders are going to be daring to say, you know what? We have a big problem. 1 .1 trillion.

Adesoji Iginla (57:53.68)
You

Adesoji Iginla (57:57.038)
What do you mean, wait?

Adesoji Iginla (58:06.014)
We have a problem.

Milton Allimadi (58:13.756)
What should we do? That's what they should say. What should we do about it? Not sure I do about it. You see and they'll listen to you. So listeners, you know, if you don't see us on this show again, I did so he is missing. Nobody knows where he is. I'm missing.

Adesoji Iginla (58:15.168)
What are we gonna do?

Adesoji Iginla (58:22.754)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:41.284)
My professors at Howard can't find me anywhere. My graduate assistantship teaching students can't find me anywhere.

Adesoji Iginla (58:46.542)
That's true because we're

Adesoji Iginla (58:53.026)
Because it's funny that you should say that and I think we'll round up with this. When you were talking about... Yes, when you were talking...

Milton Allimadi (59:00.252)
No, but that's what they should do. You know it my brother 1 .1 trillion is no longer a liability for the borrower. It's an asset Come to the table and say okay this time First of all, how much are you willing to write off completely? Okay. Thank you

Adesoji Iginla (59:07.518)
Yeah, assets.

Adesoji Iginla (59:18.934)
How much are you willing to reschedule?

Milton Allimadi (59:21.318)
Boom. And then number three.

How much of my plan for industrialization are you willing to support? With new money. So that in five years time, this is my level of industrialization. You can't be a country and your level of industrialization is 1 % or 2%. No, I want to be 20 % by this year, 25 % by this year industrialized, you see? Those are the things that

Adesoji Iginla (59:36.515)
right off the...

Adesoji Iginla (59:44.098)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (59:54.99)
African finance ministers need to be negotiated. And of course, they can only do that by getting authorization from their president. And sadly, it comes at a tremendous cost, as Thomas Sankara proved.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:11.798)
Even before Tomo Sankara, there was a gentleman who wrote a book titled, Neocolonizing the Last Stage.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:15.926)
Absolutely. so read the back of the... there's a blurb in the back, the back page, the back cover.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:24.546)
other bye.

The essence of neocolonialism is that a state which is subject in theory, independent and half the trappings of all international sovereignty, in reality its economic system and thus its political policy is directed from the outside.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:45.18)
You know there's a pad on the back of the cover. Flip the cover and look at the back.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:50.456)
That's all.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:51.888)
Yes, what does it say? No, no, the top part.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:53.902)
This part? the top part. This is a book which when published in 1965 caused such an uproar in the US State Department that a sharp note of protest was sent to Kwame Nkrumah and that 25 million of American aid to Ghana was promptly cancelled. It exposes the working of international monopoly capitalism in Africa and shows how the stranglehold of foreign monopolies

Milton Allimadi (01:01:13.862)
Think about that.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:23.682)
perpetuate the paradox of Africa poverty in the midst of plenty.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:28.988)
Boom, isn't that what we discussing in this New York Times article? And the solution is in that book that you are holding. And for that book, that was the beginning of the end from Krumah. The book was published in 1965. Not only did they cut that aid which you're mentioning, which by the way, in today's dollars would probably be close to 500 million. That's a lot of money. Maybe 300 plus million, right? And then of course the next year he was overthrown.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:32.313)
Yep

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:36.183)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:50.712)
Mm. Mm.

Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:59.693)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:59.718)
Coincidence? I doubt it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:02.58)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:03.44)
You know? Yeah, so there's a price that comes with independence. Meaningless independence is fine. Which is what many of these African countries have. Meaningless independence. So you have the, you know, big tough men like serving, killing civilians, locking them up and all that, calling himself president with the police and soldiers saluting to him, riding with this flag.

on his limousine and all these body cuts.

Nothing. It's nothing. You know, he's running a country that is not independent. And multiply this for all those other leaders. It's only paper -independent. When you stop asking for true independence, like as you showed, Gruma, you're out of power. Lumumba, you lose your life. Sankara, you lose your life. Sankara said one thing, which is still the wisdom.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:38.231)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:44.085)
and the

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:48.63)
and the irony of

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:56.482)
Badu? Yeah? You lose your life,

Milton Allimadi (01:03:07.26)
that all these, I'm sorry to say, useless leaders. They're useless because they're not serving the interests of our people. So Ankara said, if we stand together, they cannot assassinate 54 African presidents. They just can't, and it's true. But if I stand alone, I will not be here to attend next year's summit. Three months later, his prediction

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:24.206)
you

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:33.57)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:37.08)
came true came true came true came true

Milton Allimadi (01:03:37.34)
100 % came true.

So two wisdoms, whereas the wisdom by our former leaders. And Kuma said, you must unite, otherwise they'll keep exploiting us. So Ankara said, we must unite and stand together, because that's the only way they cannot assassinate all of us. So they were saying the same things in a different way, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:03.581)
Wow. So yes, we continue to do this. And if you want to support us, share, like, subscribe, you can also listen to the audio version of this podcast on all major podcast platforms. And again, we'll continue to say thank you to Comrade Alimadi for coming in and doing what you do.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:29.616)
Thank you. All the

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:29.736)
and Victor Aseta, and it is from Brother Milton, Any Final Thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (01:04:42.204)
See you next week, my people.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:44.214)
See you next week and from me as well. It's see you next week and have a lovely rest of the weekend. And until next week, it's goodbye for now.