EP 4 African News Review I Adesoji Speaks Knowledge 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discussed various topics related to Africa's relationship with the Western world. They covered the impact of austerity measures imposed by multilateral lenders, the need for African countries to control their own resources, and the potential for African countries to industrialize and add value to their exports. 

They also discussed Senegal's efforts to secure fairer partnerships in the mining sector. Overall, the conversation highlighted the importance of African countries taking control of their own economic destiny.

Milton Allimadi and Adesoji Iginla discussed various topics including investment policies in Africa, the re-election of Paul Kagame in Rwanda, and the deployment of Kenyan officers to Haiti. They highlighted the challenges African countries face in industrialisation due to the policies imposed by international financial institutions. 

They also criticized The Guardian for providing uncritical coverage of the Rwandan elections. 

The conversation concluded with a discussion on the implications of the US presidential election for Africa and the African diaspora.

00:00 Introduction and Background
01:40 Rejecting Austerity Measures
07:16 The Path to Economic Independence
13:27 Securing Fair Partnerships in the Mining Sector
32:41 Challenges in African Industrialisation and Investment Policies
48:35 The Guardian's Uncritical Coverage of Rwandan Elections
49:04 The Deployment of Kenyan Officers to Haiti
01:00:03 Implications of the US Presidential Election for Africa and the African Diaspora
01:06:06 The Role of the Media in Shaping Narratives

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.167)
Welcome to African News Review, our weekly conversation in which we take a look at the coverage of Africa and the Western media and deconstruct the stories for you. I am your host, Adesuji Iginla. And with me as usual is a journalist, publisher, Blackstar News, a broadcaster, WAI .org, 99 .5 FM New York radio.

He teaches African history at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He holds degrees in journalism and economics from Columbia and Syracuse universities respectively. His book, Manufacturing Hate, How Africa Was Demonized in the Western Media, copy you see here, inspired this program. I would also mention he's an explorer in his spare time and amongst his remarkable discoveries is London's Main River.

which he renamed River Gulu. I speak of none other than comrade Milton Alimadi. Welcome and how have you

Milton Allimadi (01:07.374)
Asante, and thank you as

Adesoji Iginla (01:09.463)
You're welcome. You're welcome. And yes, the week has been very interesting to say the least, both on your side of the pond, my side, but our focus is Africa as always. And for the first story, we go to the story that has been in the news. So this is almost like a

You know, a further down the line story. And I speak of Kenya. Kenya has been in the news and this time it seems we're about to understand what the undercurrent for the story is. Our first story comes from the Financial Times and it's titled, Kenya's Mass Protests Expose Africans' Fury with the

The lead says William Ruto is the latest president of developing country caught between multilateral lenders and angry population.

It's as Kenya reels from deadly anti -tax riot which has rocked East African most advanced economy. The target of Africa's protestors' anger remains starkly clear in murals on the walls of central Nairobi and it's not just the government. IMF keep your hands off Kenya says one pointed slogan. As live rounds

and police deployed teargas in Nairobi streets, 25 -year -old protestors Joe Morabie said the IMF is involved in bringing this chaos upon Kenya. For many Kenyans, the unrest that forced President William Ruto last month to withdraw a finance bill aimed at raising more than $2 billion in taxes has labored the role of Washington's base multilateral Lender

Adesoji Iginla (03:15.113)
lenders in their country's policy makers. The country's policy making. Kenya is not the only African country where citizens are rejecting austerity measures often imposed to appease multilateral lenders that demand fiscal discipline in exchange for cheap loans. In Nigeria, where President Bola Tinubu has delivered a series of shock therapies, including reducing petrol subsidies,

Cutting electricity support and devaluing the currency, labor unions have gone on strike in protest. The country received $2 .25 billion in World Bank loan package last month, accompanied by a praise for critical reforms on the way. On Olusegun Obasanjo the former president of Nigeria, the Financial Times that the prescription from IMF and the World Bank

may work for developed countries, but were not right for emerging economies. African states should be the architect of their own fortune," he added. If the World Bank and the IMF are the architect for us, we will fail, Obasan just said. He said staff at the lenders were brilliant, first class in Cambridge, and Ivy League schools but unfit to make recommendations for millions of people.

in developing countries. Your thoughts,

Milton Allimadi (04:46.629)
Well, first of all, I'd like to say that it's good to see the Financial Times being much more honest than the Economist or the New York Times. Because remember, we had a conversation a short while ago in one of our episodes, and I said the crisis in Kenya is not so much Ruto. I said we could change the name, and it's not about Ruto. It could have the name, it could be any other president in Kenya.

It could be Uhuru Kenyatta, right? And I also said that it's almost as if they have been listening to our show, because I also said that what Kenya was experiencing, and that of course, when people had been killed during the protest, I said what Kenya is experiencing is potentially liable to happen in any one of those African countries because the conditions are exactly the

I said they do not own their production. I said, if your budget is drawn by the World Bank, how can you call yourself a sovereign country? You know, we had this conversation, I don't know whether it was the last episode or the episode before that. So now, I'd like to see an establishment media, the Financial Times, laying it out clearly that obviously this is not just a Kenyan situation. This is the most

Adesoji Iginla (06:03.946)
It was wonderful.

Milton Allimadi (06:16.676)
coverage that I've in our mainstream publication, establishment publication, that is outlining the challenges that Kenya faces. And it's 100 % true and correct. In fact, there's only one part of this story that we're discussing that I thought was slightly dishonest. When it suggested that not all

African countries are critical of the IMF World Bank regime. And then it mentioned Ghana, but that was a very disingenuous reference. It said Ghana had said they're not going to take IMF money and then civil society put pressure on the government to change its mind. And then finally the government

But that is hardly a support for the thing that was under duress. You know, it was totally under duress that the government did that. And to be honest with you, it's been, it's taken its toll on Ghana and who knows what the total implication in Ghana of that thing. But it's a major problem. And you also, you're referencing Nigeria, the same problem.

Adesoji Iginla (07:16.055)
correct correct correct yeah

Milton Allimadi (07:41.024)
in Nigeria, and you can name any other African country. And historically, many of the more astute African leaders have resisted being involved with the IMF World Bank. For example, in Tanzania, the late Julius Nyerere refused to take IMF bailout. You know, his Minister of Finance would argue with him, we really need it. To his credit, he never took a loan from the IMF.

until he retired as president. Then of course afterwards, Tantanian started becoming involved with the IMF. The same thing with Thomas Sankara in Burkina Faso. He also refused to take IMF loan because he knows the consequences. The consequences are what you see the young people of Kenya now protesting against. But I guess the other point I can add is that I think

when we discussed South Africa a couple of weeks ago, we talked about, and I was very critical of the economist and the New York Times celebrating the so -called government of national unity between the ANC and the Democratic Alliance, the DA, the party controlled by the Europeans. And I said, this is nothing to celebrate. This is short -lived.

Adesoji Iginla (08:53.803)
coalition.

Adesoji Iginla (08:58.667)
Democratic Alliance.

Milton Allimadi (09:06.435)
Because the ANC is a part of national liberation, the Democratic Alliance is the party of apartheid. They don't want land reform. They don't want any special measures to create jobs for millions of unemployed black people. Black unemployment is 37 to 40 percent of unemployment. European unemployment is only about 7 .4 percent, and they make 7 .2 percent of the population.

And I said the Europeans who are now part of government in South Africa have a way to enforce their way. And I said it would be their friends who run the IMF and the World Bank. So any of the situations that we've discussed involves external control over Africa's economy, over Africa's production, and over Africa's consumption.

because you can only consume what you produce and what you import. And in order for them to import, have to, they're forced into taking these loans. And then the interest rate, you know, the article says, has people there saying it's low relative to other rates. Well, it's not low based on the income of Africans. Otherwise Kenyans would not be coming out to the street at 38.

Adesoji Iginla (10:21.783)
cheap loans.

Milton Allimadi (10:32.757)
of them would not have been killed by the security forces. But then one other point I have to make. I think what we are seeing on the Afghan continent is the same struggle. The same struggle to get control over your resources, to get paid adequate rate for your resources, to be able to manufacture and to replace these imports that we currently

Adesoji Iginla (10:50.369)
sources.

Adesoji Iginla (11:01.665)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (11:02.595)
import from the industrialized countries and to get control of the debt. So they manifest themselves in different ways. Whether it's a a popularly supported coup in Mali or Burkina Faso or Niger, whether it's the young people coming out in the streets in Nairobi and other parts of Kenya, it is part of the same struggle. And I think at the end of the day

I don't know how long this process will take. We're going to see a change in the form of government in African countries because this type of fictitious government that we inherited from the West really is not suitable for the African condition, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (11:45.537)
continent. Yeah. And also, just to just to add, what would you say is your take with regards to this lens itself actually to

Adesoji Iginla (12:03.849)
the book, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa.

Milton Allimadi (12:10.269)
So first of all, I'm just doing a volume check. Can you hear me clearly? I can hear you clearly prior to you adjusting. Okay, very good. So in terms of that book, that book of course captures the entire essence. And that book, I know many of our sisters and brothers, you know, sometimes they get intimidated when you start talking about books. But the book lays it out how you around develop Africa. But in addition to the book,

Adesoji Iginla (12:11.637)
I think you're getting an echo.

I can hear you prior to you adjusting.

Milton Allimadi (12:37.929)
If they don't have time, Sister and Brothers, you don't have time to read the book, please listen to the lectures on YouTube where Walter Rodney, the author of that book, lays out the same thing we're discussing right now. One of the best lectures, I think we've mentioned in the past, Crisis in the Periphery, Africa and the Caribbean. And then another one is a lecture, no, actually it's an interview by Professor, the late Samir Amin.

called Africa's Industrialization Challenge. And it will discuss everything that is now unfolding in Kenya. And you'll understand why the youth are coming out on the streets in Kenya. OK.

Adesoji Iginla (13:22.679)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (13:27.627)
We go to... I think you... I'm getting an echo.

Milton Allimadi (13:27.987)
We go to... I think he... I'm getting an echo?

Adesoji Iginla (13:45.393)
you want to move your microphone away from the speaker of the computer? yes. can you hear me

Milton Allimadi (13:58.344)
Is that better?

Adesoji Iginla (13:59.915)
Better, fantastic, fantastic. Can you hear me?

Milton Allimadi (14:01.97)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (14:06.209)
Can you hear me though?

Milton Allimadi (14:08.52)
I can hear

Adesoji Iginla (14:10.045)
OK. So speaking of income, we go to our next story, which is from the EU. And it's essentially what you were talking about, the failure to industrialize. And by that, we're talking about the EU who has decided we're going to rewrite the rules. And this story comes from The Economist. And it's titled, How EU

do good re -risk harming African small farmers. New forest mapping rules may shut African crops out of the European market.

Sacks of coffee are piled up high in an Ethiopian warehouse, dwarfing the workers who scurry between them. Our farmers' lives are dependent on this coffee," says Dijene Daki, Dadi Dika, the general manager of the Oromo Coffee Farmers' Cooperative Union, which have more than half a million members farms. He is worried about a new EU deforestation regulation, which requires

every bean sold in Europe be traced to the field it came from. It costs the co -op about four dollars to geolocate each farm and he wonders who we pay. With the stroke of a pen, the EU is rewriting trading practices the world over. It is bringing farms, bringing cocoa, coffee, rubber, soya, palm oil, wood and cattle products into Europe to prove that this

commodities did not come from land which was deforested after 2020.

Adesoji Iginla (16:01.227)
So what do you think will be the impact of such a new rule?

Adesoji Iginla (16:16.449)
Can you hear

Milton Allimadi (16:18.939)
Okay, I think there's a little problem with the volume again. I heard parts of what you're reading. Did you post the question already?

Adesoji Iginla (16:26.591)
Yes, I did. I did.

Milton Allimadi (16:30.489)
Yeah, there's some challenge with the volume, but I think I heard enough of what you were reading to give you my views on

Milton Allimadi (17:08.472)
Okay, so you know my view on this particular topic is a bit contrarian and I'll explain in two parts. Number one, obviously in theory I support what the premise is all about, right? The premise is of course the issue of deforestation which of course is a major crisis globally.

Adesoji Iginla (17:17.034)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (17:37.846)
and particularly in Africa as well. Because in Africa, we have the remaining potential savior of the earth, right? We still have dense forest, dense growth, and obviously we need that for the carbon capture to sustain the world as we know it. So I can see the incentive to come up with these mechanisms.

discourage the deforestation, the mass cutting down of these trees. So the article is posing the premise that on the other hand, while that in fact is good, it has other consequences as well. It has other costs. So what is the solution? So they're presenting it as if it's a choice. We either ignore putting any restrictions

because we don't want African farmers to suffer. So let the deforestation essentially continue, which is of course a very absurd argument. Even by the standards of the economists, it's preposterous. can't have that. Number one. And then number two, I actually see it as an opportunity. First of all, I must say, even though

the article sounds like sort of an alarmist tone, this proposal is unenforceable. It's completely unenforceable. They don't have the resources to enforce it. They're not going to say, let's see whether those, first of all, how do you know the borders of those farms, right? Because many of them are small scale producers.

Adesoji Iginla (19:16.534)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (19:35.617)
not large plantations. So are you saying these small farms that are adjoining one each next to the other are going to have to invest into unique geo -mapping devices? That to me is completely preposterous. I don't see how you enforce that. It sounds like it's good on paper, but it's going to be very difficult to enforce. But that was not my main point. My main point is that

Adesoji Iginla (19:56.405)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (20:05.582)
This is finally assuming it is enforceable going forward. It's actually going to compel African countries to stop exporting those huge bags, those huge sacks packed with cocoa, packed with coffee, packed with soya beans, packed with so -called unprocessed agricultural commodities, right?

Adesoji Iginla (20:33.463)
for next to nothing.

Milton Allimadi (20:34.487)
That's what they're doing now with their agricultural products. That's what they're doing now with the minerals that come from the earth. So now is an opportunity to start manufacturing. So export the cocoa as nicely packaged chocolate. Right? Why are they buying it in sacks in the first place? They're buying it in sacks because they want to maximize

Adesoji Iginla (20:54.817)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (21:04.301)
the value once they put it through their factories. They're not doing anything magical to their coffee or the cocoa. They're just processing and then repackaging it. And that is why they insist on buying it in these huge sacks. And if you ban the sacks, they'll find other ways of containers to ship it. So it seems to me that this is not an opportunity for you.

actually say if you really want to help us we don't need geomapping we don't need any funds to enforce the deforestation we can do it by producing and then converting this into value -added products so the coffee now comes in containers, ships straight to Whole Foods you buy it in containers

and you're getting a percentage of that higher value. So if it's selling at $15 or $20 a particular container, why should you not be able to get $10 out of that, 50 % to even 70 % since you, and I don't know how the economics works in terms of the shipping costs, the tariffs and all that other stuff. But it seems to me that this is actually

Adesoji Iginla (22:22.529)
Hmm?

Milton Allimadi (22:31.389)
a golden opportunity for African countries going forward. So while the economy sees it as a tragedy, I see it as a potential golden opportunity once and for all for African countries to really win themselves off that dependency on exporting bulky raw and processed materials to the West and of course to China as well.

Adesoji Iginla (22:58.633)
Okay, and so while one country is seeking, or the entire continent are seeking to avoid geotagging, one is seeking fairer deals with regards to how the foreign partners deal with them. So we speak of Senegal. Senegal sets, and this story comes from Radio France International.

Senegal sets out to secure fairer partnership in mining sector. The lead says Senegal recently elected president Bassirou Diomaye Faye has promised to renegotiate mining gas and oil contracts signed with foreign companies at a top level summit in Paris this week. His mining minister sets out how the new government plans to break away from all practices. Speaking at this year's mining on top Africa.

conference. Birami Soye Diop, Senegal's Minister of Energy and Mines said his company, his government intends to review the contract of mining companies that do not fulfill their environmental obligation. A few days ago, I visited Kedudu and Diop said, referring to the region which houses most of Kenya's Senegal's industrial and artisanal gold mines.

Located 700 kilometers east of the capital, Dhaka, and close to Malian border, it is one of the country's poorest regions and is also subject to widespread contamination. The water of Falame River is totally polluted. Animals are dying, children are dying, forests have been decimated, Diop said. This because of poisoning by cyanide and mercury used for gold mining.

This is not fair, he says. And I think it goes back to what you were saying, which regards to a possibility for a reset. And maybe the home government can now take a leaf out of what has gone before and sort of reset to say, listen, if you intend to do business with us, this is our terms of the business arrangement. You don't stick with it, we kick you

Adesoji Iginla (25:22.188)
What do you think?

Milton Allimadi (25:25.479)
So in fact, this article has similar echoes to what I just spoke about in terms of the Economist article, which of course was condemning deforestation and I said that's only part of it. They can turn it to their advantage by using value added. So now the Senegalese, the new young leadership is talking about the same

Adesoji Iginla (25:31.806)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (25:55.046)
that I was just describing. But now instead of agricultural commodities, they're talking about the minerals that come from our subsoil. And of course, it's the same echo. know, why are we, first of all, he revealed something and I'm glad they're being very honest about it. Because many African officials would not be willing to admit that we actually don't even know.

how much the value of our resources are, right? Because they don't share data with us, right? And of course we know why they don't share data, because they want to continue cheating and exploiting. And that is the reason why they don't share data. But that was a remarkable revelation when a whole minister in the government says that the foreign multilateral actually know more.

Adesoji Iginla (26:30.967)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (26:54.125)
about our own resources. I commend him for his honesty and I must say that probably applies to every African country because I cannot imagine that when they come there for prospecting that the information that they obtain they're going to give you the accurate information. That would not make sense. There's a built -in incentive to cheat.

to say that we have discovered less. Because you have to pay for the concessions, right? So if it's a huge concession, you have to pay a lot more. So they're going to minimize the level of resources that they've discovered through their prospecting. And they're the ones who have the equipment for the prospecting, you see? So we pretty much have to go with the numbers that they declare. And we know the numbers preposterous because first of all,

Adesoji Iginla (27:30.551)
correct?

Milton Allimadi (27:53.38)
You know that pretty much every major multinational company does not pay the adequate share of taxes in the African countries where they operate. So if they don't do that, why are they going to give you accurate data on what they've discovered through their own digging and research on the ground? So thank you, Mr. Minister. So that is one major challenge, right? But then, of course,

Adesoji Iginla (28:05.525)
Mm -hmm. What?

Milton Allimadi (28:22.83)
The second major challenge is the challenge that has always been the case since independence. How do we get our fair cut? Right? In the absence of getting a fair cut, and you will never get a fair cut, right? Is to use the resources yourself to manufacture products that you can then use

so there is no need to export. And you can also start exporting and competing in the international market. And you don't have to see the international market as Europe, North America, Asia. Your international market is actually domestic. It is the African market itself. So if an African country is producing smartphones,

Adesoji Iginla (29:13.985)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (29:19.759)
The entire market is the rest of Africa. If an African country is producing automobiles, the market likewise is Africa. Now what Sankara said, you know, let's produce what we consume as Africa and let's consume what we produce. Our trade, intra -African trade, remains at less than 15%. That is just abominable.

Adesoji Iginla (29:38.859)
consistent with what we produce.

Adesoji Iginla (29:50.219)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (29:50.286)
Europeans among themselves, their trade level is more than 80%. And that applies to the United States also with its trade with other so -called developed countries or the industrialized countries. That's also 80%. So we are ceding our African market to them, partly because we are not producing the things that all of us as Africans then end up importing from Europe.

from the United States and from China. So I like what the minister said in terms of trying to create some competition, saying we are not looking for investors only from Europe. If we can get good deals and offers from Saudi Arabia, that's where they need to go. But they need to beyond that. They need to deal with investors

Adesoji Iginla (30:38.945)
More world.

Milton Allimadi (30:48.618)
And he actually did say that. And perhaps the article itself did not elaborate on what he spoke about because he mentioned the fact that they need to share technology, right? And sharing technology means we need to benefit from that technology in order to industrialize, to use this raw resources the same way that they use it once they ship it.

Adesoji Iginla (31:01.547)
Yep, yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (31:16.789)
overseas, their own countries. So I think that's what he meant, but sadly was not elaborated on in that particular article. And then of course, the danger remains the same. If this conversation is coming only from these young leaders in Senegal, they will do everything in their power to make sure they don't stay long in power. You see? And that is a problem. So this is why

Adesoji Iginla (31:44.236)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (31:46.252)
This needs to be a regional conversation. There needs to be a Pan -African conversation. That's the only way we can protect ourselves. Going back to Kenya, Kenya cannot deal with that issue with the IMF and World Bank by itself. Kenya will not be able to survive. It needs to be a Pan -East African conversation, and a Pan -African conversation. You you can't be...

Adesoji Iginla (31:51.787)
Conversation, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (32:16.193)
having these kind of concessions in Kenya and then they'll say, well, Ruto if you're not going to deliver, you know, we'll support somebody else who is willing to sign on the dotted line and you'll be gone. And then run to Tanzania and do the same thing. The Africans need to be on the same, have the same policy when it comes to industrial policy.

when it comes to investment policy. Otherwise, they'll do what they've been doing for 60 years, which is undercut one African by finding another one who's willing to accept these policies uncritically. And that's always been the problem.

Adesoji Iginla (33:00.287)
And also another problem they might possibly face, I'm talking about the African continent, is the destabilization in itself would spread to the regional bodies around. And then before you know it, you don't have that where we don't.

OK, so the point I was making is with those African countries destabilized and not being able to determine their own cause of action with regards to the power of the agencies they dealing with, in this case, the IMF, and in Senegal's case now, international financiers, some of these transnational companies,

are the size of countries, the kind of money they make. Most of these countries can only, you know, experience it from time to time. And so I suppose my question to you would be, aside from coming together within the African continent, would you not, in line with Brother Walter Rodney's book, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, to really focus

on industrialization. What do you

Milton Allimadi (35:18.909)
Well, that's the problem. They don't have the capital to industrialize because they've not been focusing on the policies that are required to industrialize. They've been prevented from pursuing the strategies that would permit allow industrialization and those of course are the dictates of the World Bank and IMF.

in order to industrialize and anybody can go back and look at the history. Industrialization has been a joint project between government and private sector. Anybody who says it's been done by private companies is not being honest. It's just purely lying. In every case, the government has taken a role and decided that these are going to be our priorities. If it's producing automobiles,

they will impose taxes that will make it very costly for automobiles to be imported into that country. So they're basically subsidizing their industrialization. They're injecting subsidized public capital into the corporations that are going to be manufacturing cars.

whether it's privately owned or a joint project between government and private sector, so they're discriminating in favor of this government project. So I'm just giving you one example of automobiles, because automobiles, of course, is one of the more traditional ways of becoming part of this industrial process. And then you protect the market, and every country that did so did the same way. So initially,

automobiles from South Korea, people will not think much of it. People will not even want to import it. But it's fine. They have a domestic market. They're protected. They're domestic producers from competition from outside. So they have a guaranteed market. It's almost like the colonialists had guaranteed markets when there were colonial powers in Africa.

Milton Allimadi (37:38.786)
If it was Britain, nobody else is going to be able to export manufacturers to Nigeria or to Ghana or to Uganda. So now you're flipping it around. You are monopolizing the domestic market until such a time that your automobile, maybe it takes five years, maybe 10 years, is now being tested, it's been upgraded, the quality is high. Now...

Even if you open the market, your domestic consumers might say, well, you know what? Our car is actually good. Forget this import from Britain or the United States. Our car is now competitive because it was protected for that five to 10 year period. In fact, now we can export it to other parts of the world, whether it was the car, whether it was our own computer, whether it's our own smartphone.

whether it's pharmaceuticals for hospitals. But now we can compete with anybody because for a period of time, just like every country has done, we protected our market until our product was ready to compete. But the World Bank and IMF will not allow you to do that because one of the conditions, this big lie, they say we have to let the free market operate.

So if you agree that the free market must operate, why are you coming to me, the World Bank, and saying, Mr. World Bank, I need to protect the domestic car industry for Nigerian manufacturers until the Fela model, the Fela Kuti model of automobiles can compete with Nissan, right?

So I need 10 years before the Fela car is ready to compete. So I'm going to discriminate. I'm going to have high tariffs. The World Bank will say high tariffs violate the norms of the free market. If you do that, I'm sorry, we can't lend you money. And then if the World Bank says we can't lend you money, Citibank will say the same thing. Chase will say the same thing.

Milton Allimadi (39:58.89)
All these major global financial outlets will say the same thing. They're on the same condition. And that is the challenge we face. Where do we get the market capital to industrialize? That is why you see the Western establishment very critical of BRICS because BRICS

in at least in theory is offering the potential of becoming an alternative market which does not come with these conditions. So we are contemplating that at one point Nigeria can actually come to BRICS countries and saying BRICS we have a project to produce high quality cars within 15 years. So BRICS this is the type of capital we need. So now that you're not getting the money from the World Bank or

can set those status to protect the fella model. That is the kind of conversation we need to be having in Africa if we are to transform. And I think we have no choice. These crises that we're seeing erupting here and there, they're manifestations of the same crises, as I said in the beginning of this show. Not being able to control our sovereignty, not being able to produce manufactured.

not being able to get adequate returns on our mineral and natural resources, having to end up borrowing from World Bank and IMF and spending more than 10 % of our income on servicing just the interest on the debt alone. Forget about interest repayment.

Adesoji Iginla (41:41.6)
Okay, so...

Milton Allimadi (41:42.461)
Okay, so.

Adesoji Iginla (41:44.969)
one of the fin.

Milton Allimadi (41:46.299)
One at a fin.

Adesoji Iginla (41:52.171)
That said, we will go to the next story. it's your friend. And Paul Kagame is on the verge of re -election. Paul Kagame is expected to be re -elected as Rwanda goes to polls. the news coming out of is that he has

over 90 % of the votes. So technically he has won. so the story goes, and this story comes from the Guardian. So people in Rwanda have gone to the polls for elections in which Paul Kagama is widely expected to extend his rule of the Central African country. And this is the fourth presidential election since more than a hundred thousand

people mostly members of a two -state ethnic minority were killed in a genocide in a country 30 years ago. Kagame, who led the Rwanda Patriotic Rebel Group to defeat Hutu, extremist forces, and end the genocide was elected president by parliament in 2000 after the resignation of Pastor Bizimungu. He had won more than 90 % of the vote in the previous three elections since in

2010 and 2017. In this election he faces the same opponents as in 2017, Frank Habineza of the Democratic Green Party of Rwanda and Philippe Mapiyama, an independent candidate. Rwanda's National Electoral Commission disqualified six others including vocal Kagame critics Victoria Ingabire, Dan Regara and Bernard Untanga.

Gantanga for various reasons. Kagame's campaign priorities included security, stability, unity and the economic development. We choose to rebuild ourselves and our country which was destroyed by bad politics and irresponsible leaders, he said at a rally in northern Gakenka district on Thursday. And which

Adesoji Iginla (44:12.191)
Over to you,

Milton Allimadi (44:14.67)
Okay, this is basically a press release and I think in one of the previous coverages of I think it was last month heading up to election, The Guardian and also expressed, you know, my serious disappointment with The Guardian because The Guardian is much better than that. It normally offers, so for example today in our discussion, I was shocked by the Financial Times.

in giving a very sober analysis of the IMF and the consequences of its conditions on African countries. That type of article you typically would get from The Guardian. So The Guardian has given us a kind of article that I doubt even that the economists would offer, but perhaps they would actually. So.

For example, by saying he won 90 % of the vote in three previous elections without elaborating and explaining that, obviously he did because there were rigged elections. So you're endorsing a complete lie and falsehood. You're doing public relations on behalf of the government, which is very tragic for publication of The Guardian. But I assure you,

the reasons why they do that because the Guardian, these are not naive people who have just come out of high school and are just practicing journalism for the first time. They know that to present a more wholesome report, they probably would not be allowed to come back to report from the country. So they've made that trade to produce essentially press releases to have the ability to return

from the country. And of course, I'm not just saying this out of the blue, this was the experience of the BBC. When the BBC produced and broadcast the documentary Rwanda's Untold Story, which I think in a previous discussion I reminded people, was never broadcast in the United States and was not promoted for long after the government

Milton Allimadi (46:38.03)
accused the BBC of genocide denial and banned the BBC from reporting from Rwanda for some time. So the BBC has made amendments and its amendments has been to rely more on press release type coverage and The Guardian is emulating that same type of journalism and does not benefit the people of Rwanda in the long run. It does not.

because at some point there needs to be a transition. One person does not last forever. And what happens the day after? You see? And that's a problem. Now, if you have media, such as The Guardian basically just reproducing the PR narrative, that is a problem. So to me, the major problem here is not so much

what does happen in Rwanda, but it is the uncritical coverage that is regurgitated by the Guardian for the rest of the world. And I'm glad we have an opportunity to discuss it here so that our listeners and if you're not familiar with the history, anybody who is listening to us, I strongly recommend if you Google the documentary.

as untold story, will take you to Venmo where you can see this documentary. It's less than an hour. You'll be able to see and you'll understand the missing gaps in the Guardian article. The documentary will address those issues.

Adesoji Iginla (48:27.701)
Yeah, thank you for that. And our final story comes from...

just south of the border from you and it comes from Haiti. And it's tied to it's from the New York Times. And it's why foreign officers are policing Haiti. And the lead says about 400 Kenyan officers have deployed to Haiti as part of the first wave of multinational contingent tax. We're trying to restore others

the gang -plagued Caribbean nation. Foreign law, and it's actually penned by your friend, Abdi Latif Dahir. Foreign law enforcement officers started arriving in Haiti late last month, more than a year and half, after the prime minister there issued a plea to other countries for help to stop the rampant gang violence that has upended the Caribbean nation.

400 officers from Kenya were the first contingent of a deployment of officers from eight nations. Their job was to try to wrest control of Haiti's capital Port -au -Prince from dozens of armed groups that have attacked police stations, freed prisoners and killed with impunity. And the Kenyan police have a checkered history back home, accused by human rights groups of killing and abusing civilians.

raising concerns about their actions in Haiti. Here is what we know about the multinational mission. Since Haiti's appeal for international help went out in October 2022, more than 8 ,000 people have died in violence there, over 3 ,000 so far this year alone, the United Nations says. The Kenyans in Haiti are the first to deploy of an expected 2 ,500 -member force

Adesoji Iginla (50:31.187)
and enforcement largely organized by Biden's administration. There is a long history of international force being sent to Haiti for the stated purpose of restoring law and order but have left behind grim legacies of civilian casualties, sexual exploitation and disease.

Adesoji Iginla (50:54.175)
Over to you,

Milton Allimadi (50:55.074)
it to you sir. Okay very good so well you know my position on the deployment of the Kenyan

security forces into Haiti and from a broader view It's more like an American project It is was promoted and courage by the United States the Biden administration and Kenya has become a willing partner or volunteer So that is offhand my initial view, but at the same time

care deeply for our sisters and brothers in Haiti. So I want to be optimistic. I want something to work for our sisters and brothers in Haiti. I don't want the condition under which they live right now to continue perpetually. If there's any chance that the Kenyan deployment can improve conditions on the ground, then of course I'll be supportive. And I wish them a safety. I hope

Milton Allimadi (52:19.728)
Barbecue is his nickname and made some threats But so far there have not been any conflict Between the intervention forward force and any of these armed groups on the I hope it continues that way obviously for that not to occur it means that The force would have to be seen as more than the 400

Kenyan.

Milton Allimadi (52:53.018)
security forces. The other countries that will also pledge support such as Bahamas, think it's Bahamas or Barbados or maybe both, Jamaica, Chad, and these countries need also to step forward. But my suspicion is that none of them is going to step forward until after the US elections in November.

they want to make sure that this if there's a change in US administration that the Trump administration would be on board with this project because it's still funded by the United States the equipment the salary of the Kenyan intervention and presumably

the intervention forces that are to come from other countries for a total of 2 ,500. So that needs to be, they need to be financed by somebody for their upkeep, the equipment they need, the armored personnel carriers, and so on and so forth. And if there's any fear by these other countries that are pledged a commitment,

might be a change in US policy, then of course they're not going to be willing to deploy. So I think some of them may sit it out and see what happens in November. And of course, that would be very challenging for Kenya because it means that Kenya would be carrying the burden alone. And if these armed groups get the indication after some time that, well, you know what, don't think Kenya's going to

getting any other support, then they might start becoming much more aggressive and we could see confrontation. So that's why the timing may be problematic, especially when we see how things are going in the United States in terms of challenger Trump being seen and shown in the polls actually as leading the incumbent in many of the key critical states that anyone needs to win in order

Milton Allimadi (55:09.565)
So I think the US election is playing a role in this Haitian operation as

Adesoji Iginla (55:20.631)
There is one more thing I wanted to raise, I think you touched on it, the issue of who is financing the force. With majority of the funds coming from the United States, is it safe to assume that we're not exactly being altruistic here? And this is one.

that is geared towards protecting certain interests by and large that of United States, Canada, and France in Haiti? Or am I just being

Milton Allimadi (56:06.845)
You're not being pessimistic at all. fact, that's been part of the challenge. Why, in addition to people wanting to sit out and see what happens in the election, there has also been the background, the unwillingness of some parties to become involved, some countries to become involved.

Milton Allimadi (56:28.935)
masked as a global intervention with Kenya being the African face of this intervention because it looks much more better, at least optically, than having European forces, intervention forces deployed

Milton Allimadi (56:51.832)
in Haiti, I think.

Definitely the funding could come from elsewhere as well. I can see a few African countries being willing to commit more.

Milton Allimadi (57:14.136)
it's seen as a more than US deployment. So for example, why can some funds come from China? Why can some funds not come from some of the EU countries? The Nordic countries, the Scandinavian countries, these are people who are always preaching about peace and global security, correct?

So if that is true, then it must also apply to the people of Haiti. They should also benefit from peace and global security. So if a concerted pitch can be made to these other countries, in fact, I think they should start making that pitch now. And you wonder how dynamic.

the transitional government, the members are, the transitional government in Haiti. In fact, you have much more incentive now to reach out to other sources of potential funding because now there's no assurance that the current US administration will be in office beyond January, you see?

So now is the time and if they're still there, then it's fine. Then whatever new actors you can bring on board is just a bonus. And if they're not there, you have at least some other actors on board. And the project won't just collapse. Because if the project collapses in Kenya and whoever may join Kenya before November, if they're withdrawn in January,

can rest assured that the aftermath is probably going to be worse than before you even had intervened. So this is the time if there's some dynamic people in this transition government to start making tours of some of these European capitals and China and reach out and say this is not a US project we want you to play a role in this for the benefit of the people of Haiti.

Adesoji Iginla (59:37.897)
And with that, we've come to the end of this week's episode of African News Review. And it would be remiss of me not to ask what the possible implication is in light of what happened in the United States for the African continent of you before you leave.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:03.777)
Well, you're talking about the attempted assassination of Donald Trump? Well, actually, I think it's not only his supporters, but even many Democrats are saying that the failed assassination may have actually boosted his prospects. As you know,

the polls indicated that he was already leading slightly in some of the critical states that a US president needs to win and now the indication that more states which had been presumed to be safe for Democrats are now coming into play meaning that his chances of now increase in those states. So I think if you ask anybody right now

who follows closely, they would not be surprised if Donald Trump is re -elected as President of the United States. In fact, I think people that follow closely and would have an honest opinion would say that the only way it seems that the Democrats can hold on to the White House is if they have a candidate other than Joe Biden.

course, people still point back to when the concern really escalated after the presidential debate, where the president's age seemed to clearly show itself. There were moments when the camera captured him looking lost and confused because he can't help being 81. That's what he is. He's 81.

And there was that incident when he started talking about some of his policies and then he lost his train of thought. And he ended up saying something like, finally killed Medicaid. Obviously he meant to say that we killed the COVID pandemic, you see?

Milton Allimadi (01:02:15.29)
So those raised many concerns and the conversation, that was the only conversation that was in most of media, establishment media at least, until this assassination attempt on Donald Trump, which actually now raises even much more concern because his supporters have played it to his advantage. You know, they now...

to him as sort of like a messianic figure, you know, not just a regular human being. And a courageous person who was not crawling and hiding, but the minute he was lifted to his feet.

was not ducking, was actually pumping his fist in the air and urging his supporters to fight. These are the kind of things that myth makers can turn into legend and it seems that that's precisely what the myth makers are now doing.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:31.033)
Look how sad it is.

Even if Biden himself were to survive an incident like that, it would not help him at this stage because he would still not be able to circumvent the age appearance obstacle, which was registered suddenly after that debate. You see?

So the incumbent is in between a rock and a hard place. And obviously, the Trump presidency has consequences for Africa as well. Although...

Milton Allimadi (01:04:12.951)
Ironically, in the terms of the US intervention that have been most destructive to Africa historically in recent years, they've occurred during democratic administrations, know, such as the intervention in Libya. That was, of course, as you know, under the presidency and vice presidency respectively of Barack Obama and Joe Biden. The US policy

to ignore the multiple interventions in Rwanda by Uganda, I'm sorry, intervention in the Congo, a violent, destructive intervention by the armed forces of Rwanda and Uganda, and to turn a blind eye, that also occurred during democratic administrations in the United States. So one could make the argument that,

because of his lack of interest really in Africa, that somehow paradoxically the Trump presidency has been less harmful to Africa. That's the irony. Obviously we don't know what will happen going forward. So that's my assessment.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:33.953)
I it's funny you mentioned that, yeah, but because obviously his lack of interest and lack of, but the problem is one final thought from you with regards to what is the consequences of his presidency for Africans in the diaspora. By that mean, mean African -Americans, those from the Caribbean and those from Africa within the United States.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:06.051)
very harmful of course. As you know, he's an avowed bully when it comes to immigration. He's an enemy of non -European immigrants. As he said at the time that he referred to Haiti and African countries as a collection of, you know, S, you know,

places. At that same time, he also said that why can't we have more immigrants from places like Norway? see? So his racist animus in playing the race card is his MO. That's how he operates and that's how it became popular because as you know, that's part of the

fallacy of capital, right, and capitalism always has the people who are eating the crumbs fighting amongst themselves while the elite are monopolizing the resources and the wealth. So now in the last debate, he said immigrants are taking away black jobs. Think about that. And he knows that resonates.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:34.86)
There is a segment of the lowly paid class who do that appeals to them by saying, well, yeah, these immigrants are taking these low -wage jobs that I could be working, even though nobody really wants those type of back -breaking work. Many of them work actually not so much in the restaurants that you see here.

cities, many of them work on those farms, know, those fruit farms like laboring like almost in like enslavement like condition, you know, for very meager wages, you know. Who would want to a city like New York or DC to go and work in those farms, you see? But that's not how the way is played out.

Trump knows that and he knows it's effective, right? So he plays that propaganda when he launched his first campaign as you recall. He referred to Mexicans as drug dealers, rapists and murderers, you see? And that resonates to also some working class European Americans, you know, who blame

their stagnant wages, or the fact that they now need multiple jobs just to survive, know, blame it on immigrants, which of course is completely nonsense. It is that way because the very wealthy elite are increasingly monopolizing the greater share of wealth. Think about it. In a country where you can have a person like Jeff Bezos, how can anyone

as their personal wealth. Think about that. And yet, that is not seen as the problem. The problem is that immigrant who is working the most lowly wage -paying job. And part of it, of course, is the media. Not part of it. The essential part of it is the media. And the media not really

Milton Allimadi (01:09:56.52)
relating the narrative the way it should be related. That if you have a handful of Jeff Bezos, there's only so much wealth that can be allocated to the other parts of society. So they are the real culprits. But do you see a New York Times or a Wall Street Journal or a CNN depicting

problem is being the people like Jeff Bezos? No. Instead you have this false narrative American dream. If you work hard enough, you too can become a Jeff Bezos. You see? So the Jeff Bezos are insulated, right? And that poor immigrant, who some of them now coming from Africa, going to Brazil, and then making through the Darien Gap, some dying along

and some after those hundreds of miles journeys making it to Texas and making it to New York City. Some are sleeping on the streets now. Some are bicycle vendors because they're not allowed to work without permit. they're delivering lunches and all that. That is really who is the threat to the American worker.

But you see, but the nonsense, you So we have major challenge, you know. We major challenge to have a Trump presidency, you know. Very major challenge. And I was saying to, in a conversation with somebody, that sometimes you need things to really get bad, to really spark revolution. What we are seeing in African countries actually,

are aspects of revolution. Because even if, let's say, Ruto becomes so unpopular that the security forces step in, but Kenya is not associated with a coup, right? I'm just giving a very broad example because this is the point I want to make. And I could use this point for any other country, not necessarily Kenya. Even if the military steps in, the military would still...

Milton Allimadi (01:12:16.251)
have to address the same challenges, you see, of production, of debt, of not being able to create jobs, you see. And if the military are actually smart, they should not even bother. Let Ruto have that headache, you know. Let the civilians have that headache. But sometimes it gets to a point where it's not tolerable. And that is subsequently what we saw in Burkina Faso. We saw in Niger.

saw in Mali and obviously they're trying to take a different approach by saying individually we can't deal with it they're realizing that Krumah was right we need to come together with that what we is that what we'll see ultimately in more African regions I don't think there's any solution that is different from them so maybe we are in a hooky -jucky way moving in that

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:16.181)
Yes, thank you for that. Thank you. And I would like you to have the final say. And for me, it's always remarkable sitting and listening to you because I think the insight you bring is just unique. And you, as always, you bring in the role of the media because you highlighted the fact that the media is the only reason why a convicted criminal

would be running for office and that will be the least of the matters being brought to fall. Can you imagine

Milton Allimadi (01:13:53.071)
I can't imagine that.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:23.492)
unleashed Frankenstein's monster and now there's nothing you can do about it because now if you expose how terrible his policies really are, his core supporters are even much more emboldened. They're attacking our hero. At the end of the day, you the media, corporate media, you get what you deserve. I hope there's some lessons to be taken from that, but I very much doubt it.

So long as the media is conditioned by the bottom line, the bottom line consideration.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:03.865)
can be about profits when you're trying to tell the

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:08.533)
Yes and good night to everyone and all the luta continue

Milton Allimadi (01:15:09.304)
Yes, good night to everyone and Luta Continua. Indeed, Luta Continua. Victory is certain.