EP 4 Justice for Congo A Legal Battle I African News Review 🌍

In this episode of African News Review, hosts Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discussed various pressing issues affecting Africa, including Congo's legal battle against Rwanda for reparations. 

The ongoing migrant abuse in Tunisia, the rise of extremism in the Sahel, and the debate on reparations within the Commonwealth. 

They also explore the role of museums in preserving African history and identity, emphasising the need for a pan-African approach to cultural heritage. 

The conversation highlights the importance of accountability, historical context, and the need for African leadership in addressing these challenges.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to African News Review
03:05 Congo's Legal Battle Against Rwanda
05:58 Rwanda's Historical Context and Accountability
09:05 The Impact of Resource Exploitation in Congo
12:03 Migrant Abuse in Tunisia and European Responsibility
15:09 The Sahel Region: Extremism and Military Coups
17:59 The Commonwealth and Reparations Debate
21:00 The Role of Museums in African Identity
23:52 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.176)
Yes, good day, good day, good afternoon, good morning, and greetings wherever you're hearing us at the moment. Welcome to another episode of African News Review. I'm your host, Adesuji Ginla. And with me, as usual, is a comrade in thoughts and arms. He's a journalist, a broadcaster with Black Star News. He is Comrade Milton Andebaadi. His book.

how manufacturing hates, how Africa was demonized in the Western media, inspired this program. Welcome, comrade.

Milton Allimadi (00:40.794)
Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (00:43.296)
Yes, it's been the usual week in the press and we are here again to scan, break down the coverage of Africa in the Western media. And for our first story, we'll go to the heart of Africa, the Congo. And in the Congo, we have a story reaching us from Radio France International and it is titled...

Congo seeks justice and reparation from Rwanda's role in conflict. The lead reads, the Democratic Republic of Congo has brought a case against Rwanda to the East African Court of Justice, accusing it of violating its sovereignty and national integrity in the volatile Eastern DRC. The court's first task is to determine if it has jurisdiction over the case.

From the RFI goes on, it says, the DRC, represented by Samuel Mbemba, Deputy Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs, is seeking to condemn Rwanda for alleged aggression in the region, including looting, rapes, and massacres. Kinshasa, which is the capital of the DRC, hopes to secure reparations from Kigali, again the capital of Rwanda. A preliminary head

Herring was held on Thursday in the court in Arusha, Tanzania. In response, Rwanda's Foreign Minister, Olivia Undugere, said the DRC should first focus on delivering justice to the victims of the FARDC, the Armed Forces of the Democratic Republic of Congo, and those of the FDLR, the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda, a rebel group opposed to the Rwandan government.

before giving lessons on justice. He goes on to criticize what he described as media and judicial posturing and constant insults from the Congolese Minister for Justice directed at Rwanda's President, Paul Kagame. In addition to the East African Court, Rwanda faces charges before the African Court on human and people's rights.

Adesoji Iginla (03:05.826)
These actions are part of the DRC's broader effort to hold Rwanda accountable for regional stability. Your initial thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (03:15.858)
Well, I of course, I support it 100%. And the story actually, I think goes further to say, which I was not aware of, that it's also trying to get the, is it the ICC to expedite the process. But there was no mention of the ICJ because the ICJ.

Adesoji Iginla (03:19.66)
You

Adesoji Iginla (03:40.151)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (03:42.642)
as we discussed in one of the previous shows here, found Uganda liable for similar atrocities against the DRC Congo in 2005. And at that time, awarded Congo reparations of $10 billion, $6 to $10 billion.

Adesoji Iginla (03:51.362)
Do you see it?

Milton Allimadi (04:05.618)
they negotiated over the years, it was talked down to, I think, about maybe 400 million, which Uganda has already started paying. So I think maybe Congo wants to do it another way around this time. If it has not already initiated at the ICJ, it starts with the ICC because ICC, of course, has the power to indict the commander in chief of the Rwanda Armed Forces, which, of course, would be...

Paul Kagame, the ruler of Rwanda. And then perhaps take that verdict, take that not so much verdict, but take the indictment as an affirmation and then go to the ICJ and seek monetary reparations at the ICJ. But I'm not aware, perhaps they have a concurrent action.

Adesoji Iginla (04:37.208)
Kagame.

Milton Allimadi (05:03.29)
simultaneously ongoing at the ICJ or perhaps it wants to do it a different way this time to go through other regional courts like the one you mentioned in the article here the East African Court get a determination there go to the where they have already gone to the African Court as well

Adesoji Iginla (05:21.038)
Court of Justice.

Milton Allimadi (05:31.002)
and also get a ruling in their favor there and then use those two rulings as an affirmation of their case and then go to the ICJ and say, listen, we have a very strong case. The African courts already determine the legitimacy of our claims, which perhaps would then make it easier for the ICJ, the International Court of Justice, to also rule.

in their favor. Maybe that's the approach they've chosen to take. But overall, I support it, of course. think it's, you can't say you respect international law, right? And then you invade a neighboring country. You kill, you call civilians to be killed. You plan the resources and

just want to get away scoff free and keep doing that and repeating that. So I think it's a wise approach. And I think I would be shocked if they do not get favorable rulings. Now that even major media that traditionally had been very soft on Rwanda with respect to the multiple invasions of Congo have been referring to this innovation, even the economist, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (06:54.38)
Ha ha ha.

Milton Allimadi (06:54.448)
reluctantly ultimately, of course, would report Rwanda's denial, but then would elaborate with other examples to show that this indeed is an invasion. So it's taken a, think also it seems also that the government and the Congo is also aware of that, that the media.

are now actually reporting this consistently as an invasion so that they think the timing is also right for them to start the international effort in these courts to get some ruling in their favor. And then the final point I would like to make is that in the article that you read, there's nowhere did I hear the foreign minister of Rwanda rejecting and saying,

Adesoji Iginla (07:46.808)
You

Milton Allimadi (07:47.792)
You know, this is nonsense. There's no such invasion. It's not there. Instead, she's saying, you you need to address the issue of the rebels that you are supporting against our government. So overall, it seems like that's an acknowledgment that indeed Rwanda has a legitimate, I mean, Congo has a legitimate claim.

Adesoji Iginla (07:51.15)
You

Adesoji Iginla (08:00.78)
You

Adesoji Iginla (08:12.511)
So what would you say, based on what you just said now, you say Rwanda has gained materially from its incursions, invasions, or what have you, into Congo?

Milton Allimadi (08:27.782)
No, it probably has gained to the extent that the resources that have been plundered is probably much more valuable than all the minerals generated within Rwanda itself.

Adesoji Iginla (08:38.658)
But Burwanda doesn't have any.

Milton Allimadi (08:41.874)
Randa has some minerals. Randa, think, grows coffee. It has its products. But my point is that what it has plundered exceeds the value of what it produces within its own country. So it's like, I know you love books. Maybe what? You have 1,000 books. But if you are free to constantly go next door to your neighbor's house and come back with 3,000 books.

Adesoji Iginla (08:49.516)
Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:05.784)
you

Milton Allimadi (09:08.272)
That would exceed all the books you have in your entire path.

Adesoji Iginla (09:11.278)
I wish I could, I wish I could. I wish I could. And so where do you see this going in terms of outcomes? Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (09:17.894)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (09:22.754)
I think it's serious. think ultimately if it goes because of course the ICJ has much more visibility. Of course we want our regional courts to eventually have that kind of visibility and coverage as well. I don't know if this story has been covered in other media, other international media. I don't know if the BBC covered it or Washington Post or New York Times.

Adesoji Iginla (09:27.085)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:37.879)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (09:51.708)
But I think if it had been action at the ICJ, but it's implied that there is already been action there because they say they want to expedite. It means that a process already exists at the ICJ. And I imagine that that one was covered when it was initiated.

Adesoji Iginla (10:01.494)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:11.411)
So you would say, so you will conclude that it's likely that Rwanda would not only be in the dock, but internationally would become some sort of pariah, which.

Milton Allimadi (10:27.408)
Right, which is difficult because the government there sells itself on the conscience, The global conscience saying the world abandoned this country, the patriotic front, the ones that actually restored a symbol of stability.

Adesoji Iginla (10:29.922)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (10:38.85)
Yeah, Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:43.918)
1994.

Milton Allimadi (10:56.742)
you know, whereas people, the rest of the world just watch as people are getting slaughtered. So that is the moral argument that it used to legitimize itself in power. So if you start losing that, then of course it becomes very difficult for you because then increasingly the focus would be on weight.

Adesoji Iginla (11:08.504)
currency

Milton Allimadi (11:26.31)
What about these human rights issues? Not only in neighboring Congo, but within your country itself. Right now, you can deflect that. And they've been deflecting that question by saying, you're talking to us about human rights? When you just stood there when a million people were slaughtered? How dare you? So it seems like that argument had been very effective, but perhaps it's beginning to wear out a little bit.

Adesoji Iginla (11:28.756)
Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (11:43.046)
you

Adesoji Iginla (11:53.4)
to win.

Milton Allimadi (11:55.558)
You're seeing by the, you know, before, for such a long time, this invasion will not be covered like an invasion for the longest time. But now you see there's some sort of confluence of all these media referring to it as invasion.

Adesoji Iginla (12:03.821)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:18.004)
seem to be having technical issues with the comrade and do bear with us.

Adesoji Iginla (12:38.328)
So yes, I would continue while Comrade tries to rejoin. And this issue is long standing. With regards to the Rwandan genocide, it was on the watch of the United Nations, because at the time, the United Nations, UMRA, which was led by General Daniel Dolim,

of the head of the Canadian forces. You were saying something and I was just about to reiterate to underscore the point you were making with regards to the Rwanda genocide.

Can you hear me?

Milton Allimadi (13:21.352)
Yes, I had lost you for a second there.

Adesoji Iginla (13:24.726)
Yeah, so I was just trying to reiterate the point you were making with regards to the responsibility Rwanda is placing on the world with regards to the Rwanda genocide, which was the United Nations failed in its responsibility. The French were there on the ground, were also, you know, undermining efforts. In fact, the United States refused to the tab because

Milton Allimadi (13:38.387)
Alright.

Adesoji Iginla (13:51.316)
they had been burnt with their incursion in Somalia. People remember Black Hawk Down and so Clinton at the time did not want to have any other American lives being lost on the African continent. Please continue.

Milton Allimadi (14:07.634)
Right. And of course, as we now know historically, the US actually, you know, okay, so fine. Rwanda had an issue that nobody can deny that, right? About the contestation over land, particularly. It's one of the most densely populated countries in the world. Right?

Adesoji Iginla (14:29.922)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (14:37.135)
out.

Adesoji Iginla (14:39.63)
So again, these are things you can't fault. So technically, issues aside, yes, Rwanda continues to be a case. And the genocide was participated by the downing of the aircraft that killed the president of Rwanda and Burundi in one fell swoop. And the rest, as they know, is history. 800,000 people died in 100 days.

Milton Allimadi (14:40.488)
But the US also played a role by ignoring the invasion of Rwanda from Uganda.

Adesoji Iginla (15:09.206)
And the world came together shortly thereafter to say never again. And that's with Kagame taking the reins of power in Kigali, capital of Rwanda, he became the conscience of the world, you know, and started, you know, his own little regime with Dean Rwanda. And suffice to say, he has been

aiding and abetting the M23 rebels who have been going into eastern side of Congo, principally the richest side of Congo in terms of its assets and what have you. so Congo has now decided, you know, enough is enough, has decided to take the legal route because obviously

There is no point fighting someone you cannot match in terms of resources because Rwanda is armed, is one of the most well armed military on the African continent. And so you are going to say.

Milton Allimadi (16:24.342)
Yeah, so I'm having some connectivity issues today.

Milton Allimadi (16:35.64)
So I lost you for a couple of seconds there. So I think, I agree with you.

Adesoji Iginla (16:38.798)
So I just gave them a synopsis of what's transpired, the Rwanda genocide, the downing of the presidential aircraft, the coming of the IUF into Rwanda, seizing power, and the rest, as they say, is now history. The man has been in power now since 1994, and he's recently just gotten re-elected.

Milton Allimadi (16:49.014)
Right, the plane.

Adesoji Iginla (17:08.16)
And so now Congo is saying enough is enough. We cannot be plundered on the basis of, unquote, you want to chase rebels into Congo and using that as a pretext.

Milton Allimadi (17:16.694)
Right. And using the right approach.

Milton Allimadi (17:26.4)
Right. Right. And it uses two. First, it says it's chasing rebels. That's one aspect. Then number two, it's saying, you are exterminating indigenous Tutsi citizens of Congo. And they are the ones actually that are formed an army to resist being exterminated by you. So those were the two.

Adesoji Iginla (17:32.586)
Mm-hmm. That's one.

Adesoji Iginla (17:43.51)
Yeah. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (17:52.076)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (17:53.228)
that they were using and depending on which one they see media picking up on, that's the one they pushed for a while. Right? Right. At one time they were pushing much more, you know, they're coming to, not us, but these are rebels, indigenous rebels who are fighting to prevent being exterminated by you, the central government. So that one was played out for a while.

Adesoji Iginla (17:59.02)
They will run where, yeah, that's the one they will run with.

Milton Allimadi (18:20.312)
And then, you know, occasionally they also play, no, you're funding rebels to come and repeat the genocide of 1994. that's, course, is unacceptable. So whichever one has resonance at any particular stage in history is the one that they play out. But as I say, this legal approach now in international courts.

Adesoji Iginla (18:37.42)
will be played.

Milton Allimadi (18:49.92)
is going to cause a major problem should the Congolese get a favorable ruling. And the evidence seems on their side to get a favorable ruling. And ultimately what it exposes is because of, as you and I know, the resources that are planted from Eastern Congo, the factories do not exist within Rwanda. So these resources are exported to...

Adesoji Iginla (18:53.441)
Of course.

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:03.17)
Hopefully it turns out. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:17.878)
the industrialized countries in the West and some in Asian countries as well, which of course will expose their own culpability in the crimes that are being committed against the people of Congo. And that is why they should be very concerned because the evidence would then be produced in these courts.

Adesoji Iginla (19:20.418)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:47.128)
This is the point at which I would love to recommend a book titled Congo, The Plunder and Resistance written by David Zending and Leo Zelig. It's a fact. The blob at the back says, since well before Henry Morgan Stanley fibbled a counter with David Livingston on the shore of Lake Tangaika in the late 19th century,

Subsequent collaboration with King Leopold in Belgium, the looting of the country in mineral world has been insatiable. Basically, you know, it's just wanton destruction. Anyway,

Milton Allimadi (20:22.806)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (20:31.446)
Yeah, and here's the saddest thing. Maybe I can make this one final point on that. And it really ties up to all these issues that we discuss on a weekly basis. We don't have an African leader who has the moral stature to speak on these issues and boil it down simply to this is just African humanity being crushed in the interest of profit.

Adesoji Iginla (20:35.843)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:00.076)
the industrialized countries. That is why we pretend there's even a debate whether Rwanda is invaded or What kind of nonsense is that? We pretend it's a debate because who are the beneficiaries of the plunder? There are corporations in the European Western countries. And if an African leader with some stature could just put it in that context, a lot of it would be

Adesoji Iginla (21:21.24)
who have a very good PR machine.

Milton Allimadi (21:29.388)
hard to pretend away. But can you point out to one single African leader who has that kind of stature, who is not tied with corruption, who's not tied with illegitimacy instead of, you know, was this a democratically elected ruler?

Adesoji Iginla (21:31.842)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:41.57)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (21:49.76)
Is this a leader who is popular in his country? When you have a whole president of a important country like South Africa, you know, being exposed as somebody who had stitched four million dollars in cash in a sofa, you know, think about it. So that goes back to leadership as well. don't have the.

spokespersons of stature. We don't have a Mandela. We don't have the Julius Nyerere, you know, or even a Thomas Sankara, you know. So that is a very big betrayal of our people. So maybe that would be my final word on this topic.

Adesoji Iginla (22:19.714)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (22:25.93)
This, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (22:31.502)
Speaking of stature, Europe is in, they are putting themselves in the dark. One wonders why. And the next story comes from The Guardian and it's titled, Europe has questions to answer over migrant abuse in Tunisia, says Amy Pease, an activist.

The EU Commission says it will be sending independent observers to the country to investigate allegations of human rights violations. The European Commission can no longer ignore mounting evidence of gross human rights violations against migrants and refugees in Tunisia, says MEPs and activists. The EU has given millions of pounds to reduce migration from North Africa into Europe in a deal that pledges respect for human rights.

and piqued the interest of the UK Prime Minister Keis Thama. How is this reduction achieved? People are incarcerated, women are raped, and children are dumped and left to die in the desert. This is happening on a daily basis, said David Yambio, spokesman for the NGO Refugees in Libya. Each agreement made with Tunisia and Libya is a death sentence for migrants and refugees, he added.

The Guardian's investigations allege national guards are colluding with smugglers to arrange migrant boat trips, as well as routinely robbing, beating and abandoning women in the desert without food or water. The families of the Tunisian opposition politicians who are already funding a case against the Tunisian authorities are making a new submission to the International Criminal Court, next to demanding

to it open an investigation into the crimes against humanity against sub-Saharan migrants. So what's your take on the angle that this story has taken?

Milton Allimadi (24:34.698)
Alright, so...

I mean, I was just looking up the population of Tunisia. think it's about 13 million. All right, so you have a country with a population of 13 million.

Adesoji Iginla (24:41.953)
See you later.

Milton Allimadi (24:51.512)
you have what is the population of 200 plus million.

Adesoji Iginla (24:55.31)
200 million and counting.

Milton Allimadi (24:59.05)
Right. How can the so-called president of Nigeria not issue a serious statement on this type of abuse of Africans? I say, okay, Tunisia, you are on the African continent. You are considered to be an African country. And yet you are behaving in a way that

even a European country would not get away with today in the 21st century. So what gives you that right?

and make that a constant statement. Don't you think Tunisia would have to pay attention to it?

Adesoji Iginla (25:44.927)
True.

Milton Allimadi (25:46.466)
So what is the purpose of Tenovo being president of a major country like Nigeria or the president of a country like South Africa?

Adesoji Iginla (25:52.329)
Milton Allimadi (25:57.802)
or the African Union. Where is the African Union in all of this?

You know, at the end of the day, as I said in the earlier segment, it goes back to a lack of leadership in Africa. Can you imagine you and I being a leader of an African country? We would just observe this kind of brutality and not issue a major statement, not even say we will even break off diplomatic relation with you.

Adesoji Iginla (26:03.128)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:27.278)
Ambassador coming to explain. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (26:34.216)
And even though we are talking about issues of sovereignty, this is so blatant that we might even consider military action against you. At the end of the day, we as melanated people in the world will only be respected to the extent that we make people know there has to be consequences against abusing us just because of our pigmentation.

Adesoji Iginla (26:38.146)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (27:02.614)
That to me is the most disappointing aspect of this story. Of course, the story contains the other element of the hypocrisy. And I like the fact that these people quoted as saying it. When did the EU know about these abuses? Because obviously, they knew about the abuses, ignored it, and continued funneling.

Adesoji Iginla (27:13.966)
You

Milton Allimadi (27:32.78)
these millions of dollars or euros to the Tunisian government. So long as you can predict these Africans, prevent them from coming to Europe, you are not seeing anything. We're not hearing anything. You do what you need to do. That's of course is the unwritten part of the agreement. Although,

Adesoji Iginla (27:33.262)
fonts.

Adesoji Iginla (27:47.967)
You

Adesoji Iginla (27:57.57)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (27:59.158)
They knew what was going on. Otherwise, why would they mention respecting human rights in the agreement itself?

Adesoji Iginla (28:12.598)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (28:13.228)
Does that just come out of nowhere? Or it comes out of knowledge that something is happening. So of course, this is a very good case that the file, the spokespersons and their activists are filed to the ICJ because the admission is already within the agreement itself. You put in that clause because you are aware that something was going on. Right?

Adesoji Iginla (28:15.362)
Nope.

Adesoji Iginla (28:28.93)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (28:41.674)
and you continue to send money. And now the Guardian has come up with this major investigation and they've yielded the evidence, you see. So let's see what type of ruling they get out of it. But to me, the bigger aspect, and I hope the Guardian pursues this as a follow-up story, ask Tinubu.

You know, ask Ramaphosa in South Africa, you know, ask the leaders of these countries.

Why is there no major statement on this issue? But if they really don't care about their own citizens, know, of course we know the answer, you know, and it's very scary, very chilling and disappointing that we have rulers who have no empathy or compassion for fellow Africans.

Adesoji Iginla (29:28.664)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (29:48.738)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (29:51.98)
Very disturbing.

Adesoji Iginla (29:53.184)
I to say they have no empathy is an understatement in itself because what you have is...

Adesoji Iginla (30:06.494)
As Aikuyama says in Remembering a Dismembered Continent, little leaders who have been put in charge of tiny plantations and they have to report to their paid masters from time to time. And so they would not go against what the said paid masters said. Again, we're having technical issues, but do bear with us.

Adesoji Iginla (30:39.128)
Brother Milton will be back in a second. So again, when we look at this story.

What we can read into it is, it says, the Guardian's investigation alleged National Guards are colluding with smugglers to arrange migrant boat trips, as well as routinely robbing, beating and abandoning women and children in the deserts without food. There was a huge uproar, again covered by the Guardian, think late last year, where the case of pregnant women without food were left

in the desert by Tunisian border guards after they've been expelled from

Tunisia. Now the question I would want to pose to Brother Milton is why now though? Why now?

Milton Allimadi (31:38.835)
in terms of the timing of the story or the interest.

Adesoji Iginla (31:40.648)
Yes, yes, the timing of the story and also the case itself. Why not?

Milton Allimadi (31:48.712)
That's a very interesting question, actually.

Adesoji Iginla (31:52.854)
because if you've known

Milton Allimadi (31:53.885)
I think I may have to defile to your judgment on this particular issue in terms of timing, you know, because you're right. It's been going on. It's been going on. Even the story says somewhere this is predictable. And of course, you and I can trace it back to even during the war against, you know, Gaddafi's government. Abuses were going on until then.

Adesoji Iginla (31:59.02)
So my reading through the article, yeah, read it. Yeah, read, go on.

Milton Allimadi (32:24.369)
So the timing, unless there's some political issues that's ongoing in Europe right now, with respect to the European Parliament itself, it's hard to really, you know, for me to pinpoint. Even in Tunisia itself, it's been an issue for the last three or four years, right? So, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (32:41.406)
So in Tunisia, there is going to be a presidential election soon. And the way the incumbent has been running things is going to be returned nearly all on polls because most of the opposition are in jail.

if they're not in hiding. That's one. Then two is the fact that the case itself has been taken to the International Criminal Court. And what Europe does not want is who has been facilitating this abuse materially and the finger's being pointed to them. That is really a scary prospect for them. So I think that's one of the reasons why

or possibly multiple reasons why the case is now being brought. It's like, we know, but we're now doing our utmost best to ensure that this does not become the matter going forward.

Milton Allimadi (33:52.201)
and that we are tied to it in terms of liability and culpability.

Adesoji Iginla (33:54.358)
yeah yeah yeah of course of course of course of course and so yeah so yeah we go on to our next story which comes from the Associated Press it's titled again it looks at this story looks at the attacks by Islamic extremists in the Sahel the favorite subject matter of the western press

It reads, attacks by Islamic extremists are rampant in African Sahel. Here is what we know about them. I've highlighted some aspects of it that I think would stir the conversation. Over the last decade, the region has been shaken by extremist uprisings and military coup. Two Sahelian nations, Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, are now ruled by military leaders.

who have taken power by force on the pledge of providing more security to citizens. The security situation in Sahel has worsened since the junta took power, Anali said, with a record number of attacks and a record number of civilians killed by both Islamic fighters and government forces. The main two groups operating in the region are al-Qaeda-linked militant group Jamat Nukhruq

Nusrat al-Islam al-Mumin, JNMI, and the Islamic State in the Sahel. Over the last year, the JNMI has threatened its presence in Mali and Burkina Faso by becoming a more coherent political grouping. The local population supports JNM more than ISIS-affiliated groups, said Annalise Shatawu Shankar of the Economics Intelligence Unit.

They have integrated local rebel groups which have close community ties. Unlike the JNMI, the Islamic State in the Sahel is a loose coalition of anti-government forces that is much less entrenched politically, said. They are much more dominant in the late Chad region. In addition, there are a number of local militias on the ground which are not affiliated with ISIS or al-Aqaeda as violence has exploded.

Adesoji Iginla (36:16.29)
between rival ethnicities and local self-defense groups resulting in self-perpetuating spirals of violence. Your initial thoughts before I continue.

Milton Allimadi (36:29.001)
Alright, so first of all...

coming from a Western perspective, right? Obviously, you know what they want to avoid. So they want to dictate the times that we discussed in previous conversations of this short history. So where does the history begin? The history begins with these military leaders, these officers taking power.

Adesoji Iginla (36:32.471)
you

Yeah go on.

Adesoji Iginla (36:45.782)
Okay. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (36:58.637)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (37:01.875)
in Burkina Faso, in Mali, in Niger. That's where the story begins. Very conveniently, right? The story avoids the destruction of Gaddafi's government, as we discussed on numerous occasions, by NATO, by the West, but led by the United States and France. And of course, it's in Britain, it's not by coincidence.

Adesoji Iginla (37:06.104)
Mm-hmm.

course.

Adesoji Iginla (37:26.712)
Britain?

Milton Allimadi (37:30.559)
That is when all these groups became really empowered with sophisticated weapons. That's where the narrative begins. by including that narrative, then of course the Western culpability would be embraced in these stories. And then their obligation and responsibility does not mean that you should base your troops.

Adesoji Iginla (37:49.112)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (37:58.011)
in these countries. They don't want you there. There other ways you can still support the effort to resist these forces that are armed with weapons that you help unleash when you destroy the government of Libya. Correct? So that is a component that has to be included in this narrative and as part of the solution. They must not be allowed.

Adesoji Iginla (38:01.58)
Adesoji Iginla (38:16.536)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (38:26.305)
to wash their hands of their obligation to help restore these governments to where they were before these now super armed groups were unleashed beginning in 2011 after the destruction of Gaddafi's government. So that's one aspect. The second aspect, of course, which only we can insist on.

Adesoji Iginla (38:29.24)
Delete.

Adesoji Iginla (38:41.934)
True.

Milton Allimadi (38:53.781)
which is also implied in the article is actually the economic aspect. A lot of these struggles, and now when you talk about some of these groups getting some local support, if the youth in these areas, and I've always used this argument for even Nigeria, right? If young people in these areas were gainfully employed or had hope

Adesoji Iginla (39:06.776)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (39:24.149)
for being eventually gainfully employed in whatever productive activities. They would not have the incentive to be joining these groups. They don't join these groups because they are convinced by some higher ideological or philosophical argument. No, they join because they know I will.

Adesoji Iginla (39:31.148)
Pursuits, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (39:55.723)
probably end up wearing nice uniforms. I may end up having nice boots. I will have communications devices if I become a leader within the units in this group. And I will have weapons. And without weapons, I can demand anything I want and need. You see?

And that's always going to be a big aspect of all of this. And obviously, there's a correlation between this. It's like the neglect. You can even look at some of our impoverished neighborhoods within these Western societies. We have them right here in the United States. You have them right there in Britain, where there's a strong correlation between economic deprivation, lack of

Adesoji Iginla (40:44.408)
Of course. Of course.

Milton Allimadi (40:52.511)
training, lack of opportunities, lack of investment, lack of job prospects. know, young people don't just wake up one day and say, you know what, today I don't feel like going for my training program. Let me get a gun. Or today I don't feel like going to work. Let me get out my gun. You know? So at the end of the day, we have to make sure we always look at the economic aspect as well.

Adesoji Iginla (41:00.035)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:12.302)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:22.493)
Otherwise, the way the stories are projected in Western media is that it's sort of like something pathological. It's a behaviorable problem. Africans have an issue in not having the capacity or interest in building stable, prosperous societies.

Adesoji Iginla (41:32.396)
You

Adesoji Iginla (41:46.83)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (41:48.961)
So I think one sub headline says, here's what we know about this conflict. I think, no, a better approach would be, here's what we don't know, because then you would explore exactly. That is our role to bring out. Here's what they did to get us to where we are today.

Adesoji Iginla (42:05.416)
here's what we did.

Adesoji Iginla (42:15.406)
Okay, one more part from that. This part here is flat. I don't even know what to say. After coming to power, all three junta left the economic community of West African states. The nearly 50 year old regional bloc known as ECOWAS and created their own security partnership, the Alliance of Sahel States in September.

They cut ties with the traditional allies, ousted French and military forces, and sought new security ties with Russia. There is a huge security vacuum after the withdrawal of French and American military from the region, which cannot be fueled by Russia. And troops from the Wagner Group, the Russian private military company present in the regions, are being financed by

the Yonti government, Shankar added, with fewer financial resources. I mean, this piece alone here says a lot. First and foremost, it's the core ties with the traditional Western allies, ousting the French and the military forces. Is that a given that you should have foreign forces on your soil?

Milton Allimadi (43:42.559)
No, and French are not traditional allies. They are traditional colonizers of these countries. You see? But that is the role of the media. So an uninitiated person would not know that these countries were former French colonies, because it's not mentioned anywhere in this article. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (43:47.468)
You

Adesoji Iginla (43:56.504)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:05.358)
colonies.

Adesoji Iginla (44:10.755)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (44:11.635)
And of course, by mentioning it, you would allow somebody who is uninitiated and yet is interested in this topic to know that, aha, so France was the former colonizer of this country. So perhaps there's a reason why they don't want French troops in those countries. Just like even before the US became a global power.

Adesoji Iginla (44:20.206)
Was that thinking?

Adesoji Iginla (44:30.573)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:34.296)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (44:38.46)
At some point, there was a reason why they didn't want British troops anymore to be in the United States. That's why they kicked them in a war of independence, right? And even though they remained relatively weak compared to Britain, they did not want the British to reintroduce troops in the US after the war of independence. And when they tried, they were crushed again, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (44:43.822)
Choo choo choo.

Adesoji Iginla (44:49.624)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (45:00.847)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (45:05.289)
So all these things need to be put in perspective. So our role is to fill in these gaps and holes that are blatantly omitted by the Western corporate media. And they're correct in the sense that the Wagner Russia will not be able to fund and adequately support resisting.

these groups that are fighting the central government. But that does not translate into therefore, which is of course is what the article is trying to imply. Therefore, they must bring back the French and they must bring back the United States. So of course we really rule that out just because Russia cannot effectively sustain them. It doesn't mean that we should bring you back in because after all,

Adesoji Iginla (45:34.307)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:42.992)
Yep, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (45:48.11)
The Americans.

Adesoji Iginla (46:00.618)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (46:02.975)
You are not doing it either. It needs much more Africa participation. They're in the right direction in the sense that the three countries have come together to try to do it together. Hopefully they can get more African countries to support them in this effort. Of course, it's difficult since we a number of other conflicts in other parts of the continent.

Adesoji Iginla (46:30.958)
True. And so yeah, speaking of conflicts, but this time of intellectual nature, the Commonwealth is going to be holding their meeting. The first one since King Charles, his majesty, King Charles became King of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. And one matter has been

for debate and the story comes from the Times. It's titled the Commonwealth Chief Candidate All Back Slavery Reparations. All three contenders to replace Baroness Cotland as Secretary General want Britain to make amends for colonialism. The fraught debate about reparations for slavery and colonialism is likely to dominate the King's first meeting with Commonwealth leaders since he ascended the throne.

The organization which has 56 members have long resisted tackling the legacy of slavery in a public forum, but a rocketing with its roots in the British Empire seems unavoidable next month with the election of a new secretary general. All three candidates running to succeed Baroness Cotland have backed the idea of making amends for slavery and colonialism. The King is the ceremonial head of the Commonwealth whose members include West African

and Caribbean countries affected by the slave trade. About 10 million people were enslaved by Britain and European nations between the 15th and the 19th century and sent to work on plantations across the Atlantic in the Caribbean and the Americas. So the candidates are Mamadou Tagara, Gambian, Joshua Setipa, former trade minister and industry minister in Lesotho, and

Last but not the least, is he? Where's the other candidate? The name escapes me. They are Bemsukin, Botray. So the lady is the first one. Yeah. Shirley Botray. Former the Foreign Affairs Minister of Ghana. So all three. So your take on this new, it's not new development, but a new

Adesoji Iginla (48:56.726)
way of speaking true to power.

Milton Allimadi (49:00.285)
Right. So obviously it speaks to where we have come and it's a long way when you have candidates running for secretary general of a commonwealth organization saying they support reparations for enslavement, African people and colonialism. And clearly one of them is going to end up being.

Adesoji Iginla (49:05.752)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (49:30.501)
taking that position. So that's interesting in itself. Obviously, some years ago, this could possibly not be the case. So it shows you how much the conversation has become a part of so-called mainstream conversation, the issue of reparations for enslavement and for colonialism, that the issue of justice.

now has more resonance than it had in the past. That of course is one step in the right direction. It doesn't tell you whether we are near to getting it or not, but still it's a positive, something positive which we have to acknowledge. And that of course, the whole name of the organization itself, the Commonwealth,

Adesoji Iginla (50:04.664)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:18.488)
development.

Milton Allimadi (50:29.393)
the Commonwealth of Nations, which is of course not the case. You cannot have commonwealth of formerly colonized countries with the former principal colonizer Britain without having a transfer of that wealth. So how is the wealth common? Which wealth, whose wealth is common?

Adesoji Iginla (50:50.933)
You

Yours is mine, mine is mine is mine.

Milton Allimadi (50:57.813)
Yeah, so it's almost like you are exonerating that history of colonization and enslavement and plunder by accepting that being part of an organization called the Commonwealth of Nations with the former principal colonizing power. So that to me has always been an issue. Are you moving toward Commonwealth?

Adesoji Iginla (51:14.687)
You

Milton Allimadi (51:24.479)
Where is the evidence? It's not there. So perhaps it's reassuring that we are now having a conversation. In terms of reparations for enslavement, for colonization, that is an issue that is not really just philosophical or theoretical. It needs to be addressed. Otherwise, we are going to go through generation upon generation, dealing with the same issues that

prior generations have been, you know, dealing or not dealing with addressing or not addressing for the past several generations, correct? Since the official enslavement was ended, since slavery was formally abolished, since colonialism was formally ended, you know, that has been done on paper.

primarily, but redressing the historical devastation that occurred. That's an issue that's always been, you know, the Americans like saying, punting the ball, know, you you kick it away forward for somebody else to handle. So that I think if it can it be done? Yes, I think it can be done.

Adesoji Iginla (52:39.957)
You

Adesoji Iginla (52:52.568)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (52:52.927)
I think you have to deal with the people that have the money, right? And a lot of the approach has been in terms of dealing directly with the governments. And I agree, governments need to take the responsibility and obligation in terms of addressing the issues of compensation and reparations, right?

But then again, in these Western countries, such as Britain, such as the United States, corporations play the dominant role in the economy. Corporations generate significant revenue in these countries. I think the approach should be directed at government, but at corporations as well.

There's no reason why corporations should not agree to some form of taxation, which would be directly related to the issue of reparations for enslavement and colonialism. Many of these corporations, as Walter Rodney showed in his book, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa,

Adesoji Iginla (54:19.416)
Well, Africa.

Milton Allimadi (54:20.637)
are directly connected, their profits and their growth can be directly traced to their participation, the role they play in slavery. So, but I'm not just saying identifying only those corporations who are linked directly to enslavement and colonialism. Every major corporation really

is somehow a beneficiary nonetheless of that relationship. So why can there not be a form of taxation that of course would be dependent on how big these corporations are? And it's not a crippling form of taxation. It's a form that

is acceptable and it's for a duration that will last for a certain duration but with a finite end goal as well. So it would generate a substantial amount of revenue because the period is stretched so we are not saying pay this amount of tax next year so that

Adesoji Iginla (55:35.224)
What?

Milton Allimadi (55:49.127)
all the funds required for reparations can be generated in a year or two. No, we're not saying this. Stretch the period out so that the funds are being generated and you're addressing the issue of reparations so that if it's over a 15-year period, over a 20-year period, substantial funds would be generated over that time frame.

Adesoji Iginla (55:51.299)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (56:16.993)
and substantial intervention can be accomplished to address some of these issues of economic inequity that still plague our communities. So that in 15 to 20 years, we cannot be having the same conversation over and over and over again. So that now it really benefits all sides, right? We're addressing issues that everybody knows needs to be addressed. At the same time,

Adesoji Iginla (56:44.984)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (56:46.741)
We also addressing the concern by the beneficiaries that when is this conversation going to stop? It's not going to stop by ignoring it. And I can tell you that if you're a beneficiary, I can tell you right now it's not going to stop just by ignoring it. So is it not incumbent upon all sides to keep exploring for a mechanism that will address the issue that is acceptable?

Adesoji Iginla (56:56.387)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:17.9)
Okay, the idea you just laid out has actually been tried, tested, and worked, but flipped on its head in the late 1800s, following the abolition of slavery.

Milton Allimadi (57:38.005)
Yes, I know where you're going with this. And it just confirms that what I'm saying that, it does work after all. And it's worked for one side. Yeah, but go ahead, finish.

Adesoji Iginla (57:43.606)
That was what I was...

That was what I was. So following the abolition of slavery, an act of parliament was moved in which about 20 to 25 million pounds then was shared out as compensation for lost property to those, to the enslavers. And

churches, corporations, individuals pooled. We would not, we would be the none wiser, were it not for a tweet in February of 2015 that went out boom and the tweet said and I quote, we should congratulate ourselves for finally paying off the tax on

paying off our, you know, our bill on slavery. Now the fact that every black person within the country was also taxed is the mind-blowing part of it. That truth was...

Milton Allimadi (59:02.309)
And we are not even going that radical. We're not even that radical. We're saying tax corporations because corporations generate significant revenue. And now you've reminded me, you've just reminded me that the model actually works. So now let's apply that model so that we can move the conversation to other topics.

Adesoji Iginla (59:12.447)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:17.592)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:23.71)
And speaking of model, if people want to read with regards to what transpired, there's a beautiful book out there titled The Interest. It's Michael Taylor's The Interest, How the British Establishment Resisted the Abolition of Slavery. And it's a fantastic book to have.

Milton Allimadi (59:47.08)
Excellent.

Adesoji Iginla (59:48.194)
And my mind is was for we are because of all the writing in there. It's like, wow, this actually happened. And, you know, because people actually stood up in parliament to say, you don't just ask me to lose all my wealth. And they voted and agreed that this is what we're going to take. This is what we're going to charge the state in order for the abolition to actually go. It wasn't a touristic.

Milton Allimadi (59:53.541)
Hahaha

Milton Allimadi (01:00:04.523)
All right.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:18.164)
they were compensated. during the George Floyd thing, lots of companies within the UK came out and said, and chief amongst them was Lloyds of London, the maritime insurers of those time, saying we need to do, and pledges were made, but who took them to task, which was to ask for those pledges?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:20.35)
So let's do the right thing.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:44.609)
Right, right. So the sentiment can be pushed further. And if we have 10, then 20 serious major corporations involved in this approach, because let's be honest, I mean, somebody might say, why are they framing it that way? This is something that is owed something that needs

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:51.362)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:14.015)
should be demanded, something that needs to happen, something that we must make happen. I don't know that any of us have that power to impose those conditions that would make Britain or the United States cut a check. So here's the check. You're right. What happened was wrong.

They know what happened is wrong. We don't have the capacity to compel them.

do the right thing. But if corporations...

Milton Allimadi (01:01:59.211)
can be made involved because corporations can actually organize to impact their bottom lines. You see? So they actually should have incentive in having this issue redressed in a very serious and committed way. So that to me seems to be a much more viable and effective approach.

If

Milton Allimadi (01:02:32.417)
We had formed the United States of Africa in 1962, 63, at the time when Khurma was really pushing it at the continental level, at the organization of African Unity meetings. The conversation would be much more different today. You see, we would have a global African power with leadership that can say something that would have global impact.

like the president of China speaks, you know, has impact. The prime minister of India, you know, has impact. You see? Where is that African leader today? There's not a single one.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:02.36)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (01:03:21.301)
who can speak have impact. What was the most recent issue that an African leader spoke upon that had global resonance? It was the issue of the Israeli genocide in Gaza. And that was the foreign minister of South Africa, Naledi Pandu, who had global impact and global resonance. And of course,

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:34.35)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:41.676)
You're a minister, yeah?

Milton Allimadi (01:03:50.593)
She's no longer a foreign minister. And I don't think that's my accident, by the way. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:54.97)
Of course not, of course not, of course not, of course not, of course not. And again, it goes to Africa's way of keeping records. Africa has a very short memory and we don't, mean, South Africa is a kissing point. You've gone through apartheid, you've experienced it, you've come out of it.

only to go back and embrace the same ethos. But this time you've inverted, you know, the mindset. Now it's all about the money. You're the people who stood with you are now, quote unquote, your enemy because you don't want to lose power because if you wanted power,

to resonate with the people, to stay with the people. You will have formed the coalition with EFF and Naledi Pando would have been allowed to finish that matter with the ICC. But because you wanted power, not at the expense of the people, you went with the money class.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:03.264)
Alright.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:13.631)
Yes, but where is the African BBC that would ship the narrative of conversation the way he just laid it out? Where is the African of the zero? Where is the African New York Times? CNN, Washington Post. Where is it? It does not exist. So people like Ramaphosa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:21.195)
narrative.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:25.026)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:41.857)
people like T-Nubo, they have no major media outlet that would help to check them and at the same time elevating the consciousness of our people.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:49.09)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:59.266)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:00.235)
saying we as African people cannot forget. Yes, you may be going through economic hardship right now, but it's not because of people coming to work there from Zimbabwe or Nigeria or Kenya or Uganda. No, look at the wealth inequality within South Africa right now.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:25.568)
Only two. Of course.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:28.769)
How is it possible that the country where people like Elon Musk made their fortune and are still holding on to the disproportionate share of the fortune? What does somebody from Zimbabwe have to do with that? know, if you have a job, whether it's cleaning the streets, whether it's working in restaurant, whether it's working.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:37.047)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:47.768)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:54.22)
How's it going to impact your life? Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:56.129)
How's that, or you know, as an engineer or as a doctor, how is he destructive relative to somebody who's still living on the interest from the wealth, from the mining industry? And your ancestors were the ones who built, you know, the world through their cheap labor. You know, you've never had

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:13.769)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:19.085)
Wow.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:23.54)
extracted from them.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:25.309)
and you know we've been discussing this task for reparations. Where is the apartheid reparations taxation?

Where is that? That's the conversation that they should have initiated in 1990s. Right. Or 1994. Correct. When the ANC had that moral stature. You see. Had that materialized, some of that money could have addressed.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:35.011)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:44.11)
94.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:03.925)
the economic impoverishment that Africans endure today in South Africa as we speak. So now you're saying now, how are you going to bring that conversation now, now that you're in such a weak position that in order to form government, you have to partner with the apartheid, apartheid light, know, apartheid light party.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:06.371)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:27.33)
Very people you fought.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:33.228)
mean, it's... seriously mind-boggling.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:33.363)
It's just mind-boggling. But since we know the importance of media in letting people think, in letting people make much more informed choices, bringing up these topics, reminding our system brothers in Africa to go back to YouTube and watch Steve Biko interview. And you'll learn within half an hour.

that Biko predicted what would happen. And with that knowledge, you you might take a different position in trying to transform your societies. So that's the value of our conversations here.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:14.126)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:18.722)
Hmm. And speaking of value, one final story, we go to the BBC, the mothership.

And the story reads, the journey that helped saved Nigeria's art for the nation. It's written by Adao B. Trisha Wabi. The Nigerian National Museum in Lagos sits in the city like a respected but unloved relative. It somehow exudes importance but remain lightly unvisited. This is perhaps because the concept of a museum is based on a colonial idea, stuffing cabinets full of exoticized objects removed from the context that gave them

any meaning. Olubile Holloway, who was appointed early this year to head the commission that runs the National Museum, is keen to change this. He wants to take the artifacts on the road and get them seen back where they once belonged. How organically African is this concept of a museum? Or has the ideology kind of been superimposed on us? He asked me. Maybe.

The conventional model of a nice building with artifacts and write-ups maybe isn't what's going to work in this part of the world. Established in 1957, three years before independence, the museum houses objects from across the country, including a fair bronze terracotta heads, beanie brass plaques, an ivories, and a bibio mask. What is your take with regards to the issue of museums and curating art for

the public.

Milton Allimadi (01:11:00.831)
No, I totally support it. I think it's part of our education and enlightening process. It's part of our history. We should take control of it. I've always had a very keen interest on this issue. It's part of recovering our history.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:05.943)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:20.887)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (01:11:26.121)
Were it not for the phenomenal Benin art, for example, were it not for the artifacts of Kemet, who would believe that we had attained such a high level of quote-unquote civilization? And I put.

in quotation because I sort of agree with Walter Rodney that when you start talking civilization then it becomes relative term you know because you're declaring outright that we had attained some level which is superior relative to yours so he says we should talk about civilization we should talk about high levels of culture

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:17.464)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:18.421)
why people are not familiar when you put it that way. That's why I also put civilization quotations, right? But look at the Benin art, the bronze art, you know? It's almost impossible to believe that human beings would produce that kind of sophistication, correct? So of course, it's important. There you go. It's important that our young people know that not this was us, this is us.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:22.732)
Civilization, okay?

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:36.118)
You mean, you mean this.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:48.565)
You know, we have the capacity to produce this level of sophistication. You see, and there's a reason why historically the Europeans who conquered Africa either destroyed or made you destroy the art and then took some back with them.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:48.61)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:57.41)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:19.125)
because they saw the aesthetic quality and sophistication, that they took it back and indeed displayed it. And here's the contradiction, right? There are two contradictions I want to talk about. One.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:32.142)
Go on. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:37.631)
These people are inherently, genetically lazy and incompetent, right? African peoples. That's the stereotype, right?

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:47.339)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:51.927)
But even though they're lazy and sophisticated, let's kidnap millions of them so they can generate wealth fast in the new world with their laziness, right? Okay, that's one contradiction. The second one, the lack of intelligence and sophistication.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:55.256)
Yeah

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:02.786)
With the laziness,

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:11.48)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:14:12.737)
But on the other hand, let's take the sophisticated artifacts that they've been producing since maybe 10,000 years ago. We go back to even prior to unified Kemet, right? Which is 5,200 years. But the artifacts going way before, you know, unified ancient Egypt or Kemet. Let's take some of that. And not hide it in the basement.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:27.064)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:41.685)
but display it in prominent locations that they call museums.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:50.633)
And then you have people coming to see and admiring, how could this? Wow. And yet, they're supposed to believe on the same. One part of their brain is supposed to believe that these are really backward savages. But suspend that part while this part of the brain is admiring the work that they produce. It's amazing.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:05.976)
People are primitive. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:11.56)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:15:18.623)
what kind of intellectual gymnastics that the European mind has been conditioned to be able to accomplish. You see? And it works so well that even our own African people sometimes have difficulty believing that we, our ancestors were able to produce them. See, because they've been informed.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:22.668)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:27.822)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:42.882)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:45.437)
and told for such a long time that you are not worthy, you are not intelligent. You are not worthy, you are not intelligent, you see? So by us actually embracing this concept, it's like you are sharing books. So people read books, even at the local village level. People have access to books or maybe now you have computers, even in places with no electricity that can generate power through sunlight.

solar energy, they can access books through computers. There's no reason why they should not be able to access the artifacts that we produce historically. Take it to them. Let them embrace it. You're taking samples. So now young people inspire that. Eventually, one day, if I make it to Lagos, I'm going to go to that museum. We don't even have to call a museum. We can make

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:25.111)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:28.706)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:16:45.747)
a different name that is more organic and Africa-centric. One day if I make it to Johannesburg, I'm going to go to that museum. To Kampala, from my village back somewhere, I'm going to head to that museum. Nairobi, I'll go there. So I'm not against that. In fact, I wrote an op-ed some years ago.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:50.893)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:57.048)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:17:12.447)
when the issue of Ethiopian artifacts was a big issue. In fact, in the case of Ethiopia, as you know, they even stole the son of the emperor, Alema Yehu, and they brought him all the way to England. And they've never returned the remains because I'm convinced they don't even know where the remains are personally.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:24.31)
of the Braille.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:31.446)
where he will later...

Hmm

Milton Allimadi (01:17:40.466)
and the artifacts, the jewelry that they looted from Ethiopia. That needs to be returned. And I said, I propose that we should also have a museum in one African country, a pan-African museum, regardless of the individual ones you have in your country, one pan-African one where

each African country contributes some of the best historical artifacts and we keep it there. And the ones that are being returned now, the ones stolen that are in Europe, United States, we also take some of it there. And then there's no reason why that Pan-African Museum, maybe located in Addis, since that's where we have the headquarters of African Union, there's no reason why we would not then have

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:32.716)
They have the,

Milton Allimadi (01:18:39.125)
these tourists coming from all over the world, right? Now they're going to the, what's it called, the Louvre in Paris or the Met in New York, the British Museum in London. There's no reason why they would not be coming to Addis Ababa. And that is generating significant revenue that is actually shared.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:52.412)
or the British Museum in London.

Milton Allimadi (01:19:07.233)
to all these African countries who of course contribute some amount to maintain the museum on an annual basis. But they will get more than their returns, you know? Because now all these artifacts in one location, you don't have to buy to the museum in Brown or Berlin, New York, London, Belgium, right? You know, you name it. So that is actually the idea that I support.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:15.309)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:19.33)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:28.151)
or Belgium.

Milton Allimadi (01:19:37.343)
because it's part of the education process of reawakening our people. I see how young people are reawakened when they encounter anti-job for the first time. By the end of the semester, they are not the same youth anymore. Now they're sharing their education with their siblings, sharing their education with their parents, with their friends, because they feel empowered. They realize, whoa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:44.472)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:20:07.389)
Our history does not begin with slavery. No, not only that. In fact, we as melanated people existed before all other forms of humanity. How can you feel inferior after that knowledge is in your mind? So that's why we need to. It will only allow our people to start accomplishing again because there's something that went wrong.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:26.056)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:20:35.975)
if we were able to build ancient command.

What's the problem today? It means we are not elevating our potential to the max. Of course, many of us are. There many Africans who are scoring spectacular achievements. But those are being treated as unique or special. But in fact, my argument is that no, they're not. They're not. So reinstill that spirit.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:44.27)
True, true.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:59.712)
individual yeah yeah

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:07.996)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:21:10.503)
of nothing can stop me. And you can do that by connecting them to that history. And artifacts, those are our books. They play a large role, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:22.454)
and we are working in the memory of our people.

Milton Allimadi (01:21:24.083)
in reawakening the memory of their past so we can understand our position today as Babu said, right? So that we can then take the direction we need to take for the future.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:32.898)
Yep, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:36.814)
plan for the future. Thank you. Thank you. We've come to you with that inspiring end. We've come to another informative African news review. For those who are listening and you want to share this, you can share it on YouTube. And also there will be an audio version on all podcast platforms.

do download from there on. And brother, comrade, final thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (01:22:15.123)
Aluta continua, support us as we try to the word, help spread the word as well. And at the end of the day, we will prevail. Once our people know where we came from, they know why we are where we are today. And then they are inspired to take us to the next level, where I have every confidence that we will reach. Whether we will be there at that time or not, that's irrelevant.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:16.856)
Victory.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:20.567)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:25.154)
Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:22:43.637)
we will provide our contribution to that.

Adesoji Iginla (01:22:47.309)
True, And yes, from me, yes, keep listening, keep watching, read them books, read the newspapers with an Afrocentric view. And again, until next week, it is good evening from me and see you all next week. Good night.

Milton Allimadi (01:23:00.927)
Yes.