EP 7 Thomas Sankara 37 years on I African News Review 🌍

This week ANR's Host Adesoji Iginla with Guest Milton Allimadi delved into the life and legacy of Thomas Sankara, the revolutionary leader of Burkina Faso, who was assassinated in 1987. 

The discussion highlighted his significant contributions to African independence, his political philosophy, and the impact of his charismatic leadership. 

The conversation also addressed the recent legal developments surrounding his assassination and the broader implications for African politics and identity. 

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi explore the legacy of Thomas Sankara, the revolutionary leader of Burkina Faso, discussing his unique approach to leadership, environmentalism, and the importance of reclaiming historical narratives. 

They explored the concept of 'madness' as a catalyst for change, the role of reading in shaping political philosophy, and the critical analysis of Western narratives surrounding African leaders. The discussion emphasized the need for agency and transformation in Africa, the impact of debt on sovereignty, and the lessons from Sankara's life that continue to resonate today.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Thomas Sankara's Legacy
06:20 The Assassination of Thomas Sankara
12:58 Sankara's Political Philosophy and Achievements
20:31 Sankara's Charisma and Influence
27:19 The Hypocrisy of Extradition Laws
32:14 Sankara's Vision for Africa
39:33 The Madness of Resistance
42:34 The Power of 'Madness' in Leadership
45:40 Environmental Visionaries: Sankara and Wangari Maathai
47:24 Lessons from Sankara: Agency and Transformation
51:30 The Role of Reading in Political Philosophy
56:21 Revisiting History: The Legacy of Sankara
01:01:06 The Economist's Narrative: A Critical Analysis
01:06:18 Sankara's Ominous Prediction on Debt
01:12:53 Cuba's Role in African Liberation
01:15:59 Reclaiming the Narrative: Sankara's Enduring Legacy

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.1)
Yes, good afternoon and again welcome to African News Review, our weekly conversation in which we take a look at the coverage of Africa in the Western media and it constructs the story for you. With me as usual, myself, your host, Adesuji Gilla and with me as usual is journalist, broadcaster, explorer, extraordinaire, publisher of Black Star News, Comrade Milton Alimadi.

Welcome.

Milton Allimadi (00:32.48)
Asante sana. Thank you, my brother.

Adesoji Iginla (00:34.574)
Yes, this week as usual, normally we would look at news articles, but yes, we are going to look at news articles, but we're going to focus on one particular individual, a revolutionary, whose October 15, 2024, marked 87 years since his assassination. And I speak of no other than Captain Thomas Noel Isidore Sankara.

He, the man was a colossus. Before we begin, I would ask Brother Milton to just give us a few words with regards to who this gentleman is.

Milton Allimadi (01:05.696)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:18.122)
Well, Sankara was a young captain in the armed forces of what was then Apovalta. He was 33 years old in 1983 when he was ushered into power. And ironically, he was ushered into power primarily by Blaise Campari. I mean, even Shakespeare cannot script this.

Adesoji Iginla (01:28.898)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:46.57)
because as you know, Blaise Campari is the very same person who later on murdered him four years later in 1987. Sankara had been imprisoned by the neocolonial regime of the day. By that time, he was so popular. You know, he had been prime minister briefly under the neocolonial regime.

Adesoji Iginla (02:15.512)
Yeah, quadrago.

Milton Allimadi (02:17.032)
Absolutely. So now when you go to an event, the prime minister speaks first and then says, I'm going to introduce the president. After he sat down, people would leave because they had come to listen to the prime minister. So France said, mm-mm, this is a dangerous individual. You need to deal with him. So then your colonial regime listened to France. They locked him up. But the armed forces said, no, this is one of our own.

This is the key to our future. So they freed him. And of course, if you free somebody locked by the regime, it means that regime is over. So he became the leader of what was then Upper Walter. He changed the name. So you can see how he started. Changing the name from Upper Walter to Burkina Faso. Because everybody thinks about the name of our country. Every citizen of our country, correct? Why is he changing the name of our country?

Adesoji Iginla (03:12.814)
True? yeah, correct, yep.

Milton Allimadi (03:17.812)
because it's giving it meaning, the land of the upright people or the righteous people, right? And that's how it started off. so I don't, of course I want to save everything for our discussion, but I just want to add one essential thing. Unlike almost every other African ruler, there are two or three exceptions, of course. He...

realized the value of power, right? Not just power for the sake of power, not just power for the sake of being the president or the prime minister, but using that power to transform African society. And that's what he was able to accomplish. He didn't finish his mission, but what he was able to accomplish with power.

Adesoji Iginla (03:51.242)
mm-hmm of power yep

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:07.512)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (04:10.038)
for four years is the reason why we're discussing him today, 37 years after he was killed. That's the reason we're doing that. And there are a few who try to use power effectively. Kwame Nkrumah wanted to industrialize Ghana and to help usher United States of Africa. Julius Nyerere tried to use power to transform Tanzanian society.

uplift the masses from poverty. There are a other exceptions who tried to use power effectively. Abdel Nasser transformed a monarchical appendage of British and French finance in Egypt.

Adesoji Iginla (04:51.156)
Egypt.

Adesoji Iginla (04:55.017)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (04:57.51)
and try to create a socialist welfare-based society and changes foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel and the Middle East and the West as well. So he belongs in that pantheon of African-Nedans who try to use power.

Adesoji Iginla (05:09.038)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (05:16.502)
to effect transformational change. Patrice Lumumba never had a chance because he was overthrown too quickly before he even exercised power. Elected in June 1960, deposed in September. Otherwise, he also planned to use power effectively. In fact, that's the reason why very quickly.

Adesoji Iginla (05:21.71)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (05:35.032)
They actually got rid of him. Because the CIA chief said that he was, what's the word? He was, exact quote escapes me now, but effectively he saying he was a dying the wool leader. And there was no way, no, he was a rabid people leader. And there was no way we can work with such a person. I mean, imagine your enemy saying this about you on record.

Milton Allimadi (06:00.16)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (06:04.318)
Right, and there are some documents in the archives of the State Department where they say he is the most effective leader, even when they were planning to overthrow him. They acknowledge that he is the most effective leader in this country.

Adesoji Iginla (06:07.894)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (06:20.995)
Okay, so to set the story, you mentioned the fact that he was killed by Blaise Campauri. So let's start there, where for 27 years, he was not held accountable. But following his removal from power, Burkina Faso tribunal will charge him. And then for that will go to the first story, which comes from the Financial Times. Why the Financial Times? Usually,

when you follow the money, you sort of have an idea of what they know to be true. it's headlined, Burkina Faso Tribunal charges ex-president over Sankara's murder, family of Africa's Sheik Guevara, seeks return of Blaise Campari from Ivory Coast exile. A military tribunal in Burkina Faso has charged ex-

President Blaise Campaio in connection with the 1987 assassination of the then President Thomas Sankara, the Marxist revolution, you can't help but put that word there, known as Africa Sheikh Gouvera. Sankara was murdered during a coup led by Campaio, a former friend who had ruled the country for the following 27 years, along with the killing of Congo's Patrice Lumumba. It is one of the most notorious political assassination in post-colonial Africa.

Campari, 70, who was ousted in a popular uprising in 2014 after he tried to change the law to prolong his rule and lives in exile in neighboring Ivory Coast, was charged in absentia along with top aide Gilbert De Gere and a dozen others. The former president's party continued to be a force in Burkina Faso coming second in elections in November that saw Roche Mark Christian Cabore re-elected as head of state.

your initial thoughts there as to why Financial Times would decide to run a story based on the fact that he was charged.

Milton Allimadi (08:26.43)
Well, because it's a major story. mean, when you, regardless of how they felt about an African president, when you bring charges against his former...

Adesoji Iginla (08:28.878)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:34.145)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (08:38.506)
you know, his former deputy and his alleged murderer, it is a major story. They can't ignore it because Financial Times is a major publication. It's going to be published in all the other major outlets, so they can't ignore publishing. So that's my first, you observation. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (08:54.039)
Okay.

Okay, so there's a part here I want to go to and it's.

Sankara was a charismatic young army captain which you alluded to who came to power in 1983 at age of 33 at the age at the help of his close friend Campari. Again, another point you made. A strident anti-imperialist, Sankara rejected aid from the likes of IMF and promoted Marx vaccinations and African self-reliance. Critics have pointed out that it also restricted union membership and independent media.

Milton Allimadi (09:15.744)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:36.098)
He has since become a symbol of African independence and leadership in part because he outlawed forced marriages, polygamy, and promoted women to leadership positions in government during his four years as president.

Milton Allimadi (09:52.278)
Yeah, well, I can only say this for a publication like Financial Times. This is actually brilliant. They are acknowledging that even with his shortcomings, at the end of the day, he was fully embraced. In other words, any errors he might have made were completely outweighed by the positive attributes that he was able to implement.

Adesoji Iginla (09:54.678)
You

Adesoji Iginla (10:02.606)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (10:21.258)
They didn't even have to phrase it the way they framed it. In their own writing, if you read this, you can tell that they're giving him a positive assessment. That just shows the calibre of person that he was. So the Financial Times, I give them kudos for being honest in this respect. I mean, obviously, there were reasons why.

he was suppressing the trade unions. He had just come to power, he wants to implement these revolutionary changes, and not all the trade unions were embracing this change, because of course, they have their constituency to protect. So the trade union effectively was like an opposition political party, and it would be the same old politics of the past.

Adesoji Iginla (10:51.95)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:16.372)
You know, have your party A, party B, party C. We go to the elections that we've been having every five years. You're on the party that has more resources or able to manipulate or project its quote unquote manifesto ends up prevailing and forming government.

Adesoji Iginla (11:24.184)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (11:37.144)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:38.784)
So I think when he came there, he wanted to change that approach. And he felt that if he was not able to control the trade unions, he would not be able to implement any of the programs that he did. So if he had completely failed in implementing any of the social policies that he wanted to implement, the Financial Times would not be writing about him the way it's writing.

Adesoji Iginla (12:05.006)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (12:05.202)
It would start from the very beginning, you know, this failed Marxist leader in an African country, rejected by the people, repudiated, and ultimately killed by one of his own. But reading even the financial times, you get the sense that this is somebody who came and changed the way power has been exercised in the past, and ultimately, his own deputy ended up killing him.

They're acknowledging the fact that, he's Marxist, but they're not spending time on that, if you notice. This is not because generally, if he had been a failure, they would have said this was one other example of the failure of somebody who had embraced Marxism in an African country. But that's missing, you see? So they're not going to concoct information that does not exist to justify their standard position.

Adesoji Iginla (12:50.638)
You

Adesoji Iginla (12:58.862)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (13:02.388)
that anybody that pursues non-neoliberalism, whether it's socialism or Marxism, the ultimate result is going to be failure. That didn't happen in this case, so they could not write it the way they generally would like to write it. That's my assessment, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (13:11.107)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:20.32)
I if we borrow from the words of the great man himself, Thomas Ankara, when he addressed the UN General Assembly, he said, I come from a country whose seven million children and women and men refuse to die from ignorance, hunger and thirst any longer. My aspiration is to speak on behalf of my people, on behalf of the disinherited of the world, and to state the reasons for our revolt.

Milton Allimadi (13:48.756)
Yeah, I mean, look, even the Financial Times is stating here, and they didn't have to write it, that he wanted to promote self-reliance, right, and reject dependency and aid, you see? It's almost like you're reading this from The Guardian or some other publication when it comes to, you know, European controlled media. This is not a typical slant.

Adesoji Iginla (13:55.715)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:59.166)
Reliance. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (14:06.254)
You

Adesoji Iginla (14:11.598)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (14:18.826)
by the Financial Times. It just shows you how unique this young African leader really was.

Adesoji Iginla (14:26.048)
And would you say that taking that stance is because we're talking two decades plus far removed from the event itself or? Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (14:35.54)
Yes, absolutely. No, no, no, I'm agreeing with you. Thank you for that observation. I don't think they would have been that generous in tone when he was still implementing those policies. It's something actually worth going back and looking, researching to see. Yeah, sometimes it's easier to give people the proper props or kudos when they've joined the ancestors, yes. So that's a good observation.

Adesoji Iginla (14:43.82)
Generous.

Adesoji Iginla (14:47.726)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:59.062)
when they're off the stage. Okay, so speaking of where that case would later take us, eventually Blaise Campari was found guilty. And for that story, we go to The Voice of America. Bokina Faso's ex-president found guilty of Sankara's assassination. They didn't even spell his name properly. So the report was filed in Dakar, Senegal.

Burkina Faso's ex-president Blaise Campari had been sentenced to life in prison for the 1987 assassination of predecessor Thomas Sankara. The ruling is seen by many as a symbolic victory for a region that has been murdered by instability in recent years. The trial of Campari and his co-defendants began last October, more than 34 years after Sankara's death. Of the 14 men prosecuted, they go into detail later. Okay, so but the key parts that stood out for me here was

Milton Allimadi (15:57.206)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:59.458)
The late Sankara spoke out frequently against Africa's colonial powers and was considered a revolutionary pan-African icon. Now, that this sentence alone speaks to why Sankara was eliminated. Can you speak more to that?

Milton Allimadi (16:18.165)
Read that again.

Adesoji Iginla (16:19.382)
So the late President Sankara spoke out frequently against Africa's colonial powers and was considered a revolutionary pan-African icon.

Milton Allimadi (16:31.978)
Yeah, well basically that could also be used to describe Kwame Nkrumah, correct? Verbatim, and I'm sure if you go back and you do some research, you'll find a description of Kwame Nkrumah like that, opposed to imperialism and controlled by neoliberal imperialism in Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (16:39.022)
Yes, yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (16:49.794)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:57.368)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (16:58.158)
and of course always talking about a United States of Africa. I think that would have been Sankara's next agenda or focus. And had he been able to persuade the African leaders to collectively renounce the foreign debt, then of course the next item on the agenda would have been.

Adesoji Iginla (17:08.023)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (17:25.366)
starting to implement the structures of a United States of Africa. Because by freeing themselves of the foreign debt, collectively, they would have immediately realized the effective power of acting collectively. And they would have said, okay, this is one major victory, let's use that same approach for the next major victory. And the next major victory could have been...

issues related to commodity prices, correct, so that they can improve their terms of trade with the industrialized countries. And there are no shortages of benefits of collective approach. And I think that would have been a good approach.

Adesoji Iginla (18:11.022)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (18:14.015)
But initially, was focusing on we need to take control of our economies and wean ourselves off this dependency. Remember, he was saying, let's consume what we produce and let's produce what we consume. Yeah, you cannot get more pan-African than that.

Adesoji Iginla (18:28.238)
This is what we can see.

Adesoji Iginla (18:35.046)
There is another part that screams out with regards to against African colonial powers. There was a conspiracy when, okay, so Burkina Faso being part of the West Africa body is also by that part of the regional body the Echo was. And the chairman of that body is Rotational.

Sankara in 84 was supposed to become the chairman of ECOWAS but was sidestepped by three African leaders at the time, Abu Diop in Senegal, Felix Yufi Buwayi in Cote d'Ivoire and Ibrahim Babangida in Nigeria. So much...

So much so that following the passing of Sankara, Fela Anikula Kpukuti eulogized him in a song titled On The Ground System. If people listen to that song, you will hear all of the stuff that I'm talking about right now in that song because he talks about the reason why Sankara was feared by all these leaders.

Sankara would not be allowed to speak to youths in most of the countries where he goes to because he was that charismatic and will get people to speak, will get people listening. And like you said earlier, when he comes in, he gives his statement, everybody else leaves because there is nothing else to be said. So what would you like to add to that with regards to his charismatic nature?

Milton Allimadi (20:21.672)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (20:31.668)
which was a sort of threat to the old guy.

Milton Allimadi (20:36.82)
Well, I'm glad you brought up Fela. Fela was, of course, the same thing. Fela was charismatic. Fela was electric. Fela was fearless. And the powers that feared him immensely, just in the same way that they Taman San Cano.

Adesoji Iginla (20:40.162)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (20:54.296)
sunken.

Milton Allimadi (20:59.988)
It will take a long time before we really recover from the loss of Tomasocano. Forget Burkina Faso alone. And it's very tragic, of course, when you see the condition in Burkina Faso today. The violence from the insurgency that crept in from Mali after the Qadhafi government was overthrown and destroyed by NATO and all those weapons.

Adesoji Iginla (21:07.736)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:27.052)
Another great leader, by the way.

Milton Allimadi (21:29.928)
All those weapons, as we have discussed before, proliferated from Gaddafi's arsenal. But forget Burkina Faso alone. Look at the entire African continent. Can you imagine had he lived when he and other leaders like Rawlings had already started that conversation and the youth of Africa?

were paying attention. And when I say the youth of Africa, I'm talking about the youth that are also in the armed forces in other African countries. And I like the message he was communicating to the youth who are civilians and the youth who are in the armed forces in African countries. Because remember that speech when he said,

Milton Allimadi (22:25.66)
and person who is armed and trained in weaponry, who does not have the correct ideological preparation, is a criminal, is a bandit. And that was true. So he's making all those young people in all those armed forces in other African countries who are listening to him saying, wait a minute.

Adesoji Iginla (22:33.87)
Sick is a criminal.

Milton Allimadi (22:51.272)
I could be one of those criminals. And he's right. Look at what we are doing. He was saying they obey orders that allow them to commit violence against their own relatives. Think about that. That's very powerful.

Adesoji Iginla (23:07.534)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (23:11.222)
That is very powerful. And I'll give you an example of why it's very powerful. Recently after the protest against the tax heights in Kenya by the young people, particularly in June when it escalated and the numbers range from 25 to 49 who are ultimately killed by the security forces in Kenya. In Uganda,

There were protests also, a bit more sporadic, not as well organized in coordinated like the ones in Kenya. And yet at the same time, the regime came down brutally against them. Young people being abducted by security forces, being raped, young women and young men being raped.

And then on September the 4th, Bobby Wine, who of course many believe is the rightfully and legitimately elected president of Uganda after the 2021 election. But since General Museveni controls the armed forces, the police, and his son is the commander of the army, just refused to give up power. So I...

Adesoji Iginla (24:32.91)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (24:36.854)
tweeted a very short clip, I think it's maybe no more than a minute, even if it's that long, right? On Twitter, aka X. And I said, Bobby Wine represents the best hope for Uganda's future. So I'm urging members of the armed forces, you are part.

of the Ugandan population. You're not separate from that. So your duty should be to protect Bobby Wine, not to harm him. Because the future he represents is good for both civilians and members of the armed forces. So don't commit violence against civilians and protect Bobby Wine and his family. So that short clip.

was viewed, and I don't know what's the total view now, but within maybe that week had been viewed more than 20,000 times. You see? So obviously it's resonating. And if it's 20,000 times, I'm willing to bet that some of those 20,000 are people in the armed forces as well. So you can imagine the amount of danger

Adesoji Iginla (25:43.938)
Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (26:03.348)
that message, which of course, I'm just duplicating what Sankara had said. You can imagine how dangerous that kind of message is to the ones who hope to maintain themselves in power by the support of the armed forces because the armed forces are not correctly politically oriented as Sankara had said.

Adesoji Iginla (26:28.054)
All rented,

Milton Allimadi (26:33.472)
So if the message resonates today to people in Uganda in 2024, I imagine it would resonate in many African countries where the armed forces are still playing an incorrect role in the political process as well.

Adesoji Iginla (26:51.084)
Now, speaking of playing political process, Cote d'Ivoire will go on to give a former head of state granting citizenship in order to avoid justice. Ivory Coast grants citizenship to former Burkina Faso president.

Milton Allimadi (27:05.355)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (27:19.744)
Abidjan Ivory Coast said Wednesday it has granted citizenship to Burkina Faso's former president Blaise Campari potentially dashing hopes that he could be extradited to his neighboring native country for his role in a high-profile murder case. Burkina Faso issued an arrest warrant against Campari in December for the murder of Thomas Sankara, a former president and military leader who was assassinated 30 years ago in a case that has famously gone

unsolved. The body of Sankara, sometimes called Africa's Che Guevara, was exhumed in 2015 and an autopsy found it to be riddled with bullets. The naturalization decree published in Ivory Coast Official Journal for January accorded Campari and his son, Paul Francois, Ivorian citizenship. It is a sovereign naturalization decision that has taken place.

that took place said Afuye Sieta Bamba, the government's spokeswoman. It is not necessary to judge what will come next. Ivory Coast Constitution forbids extradiction of its citizens, according to a high-level jurist. However, former President Laurence Bacbouw is currently standing trial at The Hague for crimes against humanity under an agreement signed with the International Criminal Court.

But Ivory Coast has no such agreement with its neighbor. What do you say to that hypocrisy?

Milton Allimadi (28:54.186)
Well, in fact, I think that observation at the end that Jesus read that another Ivorian citizen is being tried at The Hague. But what is missing in the story, which I think is very, important, is it seems to me that...

Adesoji Iginla (29:02.424)
former president.

Adesoji Iginla (29:06.326)
you

Adesoji Iginla (29:11.214)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (29:15.306)
You can't just grant citizenship by snapping your fingers like that. I think there is probably a due process involved in granting citizenship. a, forget being a head of state, can somebody flee to another country and then they hear, your own country is bringing serious charges, capital offense against you.

Adesoji Iginla (29:22.766)
Mm.

Okay.

Milton Allimadi (29:44.214)
and then suddenly overnight the country where you fled to just grants you citizenship just like that. Isn't that a process involved? Was the law pursued? That's not addressed in this story, you know? And that's where journalism is inadequate. If they took unusual steps, exceptional steps, that should have been mentioned as well, you see? If the law does allow...

Adesoji Iginla (29:51.534)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (30:11.05)
under extraordinary circumstances for immediate granting, that should also be made known. See, that's where the journalism often is very lacking. And this is a major outlet. Obviously, they have the resources. Absolutely, they have the resources to deploy good journalism. Why is it not there? You know? So that, to me, is very disappointing. Nothing else is surprising, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (30:13.269)
circumstances.

Adesoji Iginla (30:26.178)
Voice of America.

Adesoji Iginla (30:38.51)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (30:39.202)
they would grant them citizenship because he helped them eliminate what was a problem. The Ivorian authorities would grant the citizenship because Kampowre helped them accomplish the mission, which was to eliminate Sankana. And that mission, of course,

Adesoji Iginla (30:44.11)
Who is... Who is them? Who is them?

Adesoji Iginla (30:50.029)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (30:58.904)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (31:02.426)
Ivory Coast in and of itself would not initiate that process. That process would have started in France because he represented a bigger threat to French imperialism. Ivory Coast only cared in the sense that it wanted to continue exploiting labor from Okinawa. The laborers who come there to work on the cocoa plantations, they exploited, underpaid,

Adesoji Iginla (31:09.358)
Ooh.

Adesoji Iginla (31:15.171)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (31:31.818)
But that's fine. They could argue back and forth with Sankara over that. They would not say in and of themselves to plot to have him killed. No. Plot to have him killed is because he represents a bigger danger, that the message that he is communicating is now spreading to other African countries. You see? So France had a bigger priority to eliminate Sankara.

Adesoji Iginla (31:52.888)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (32:00.052)
than Ivory Coast did. But of course Ivory Coast at that time and even now is like an appendage of France. They would carry out the desires of the quote unquote mother country. Which is exactly what they did, you see.

Adesoji Iginla (32:14.776)
Okay. So while he was a threat to the imperialist, he was of immense benefits to the people, which is where we go to for our next story. We go to the Guardian and the Guardian says, Sankara, daring to invent Africa's future. And this article is actually more than 16 years ago, but it's quite an interesting read.

Milton Allimadi (32:37.824)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (32:45.054)
And so it's titled Sankara Daring to Invest Africans Future. It's written by Sean Jacobs. The president of Burkina Faso was brutally murdered 21 years ago. Had he lived, the continent might have seen, might have had a different fate. So he goes on, talk about the circumstances of his death. Armed men burst into the office of Thomas Sankara, president of Burkina Faso, murdered and 12 of his aides in a violent coup d'etat.

Milton Allimadi (33:00.0)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (33:12.64)
In an event that parallel dosed in Congo 27 years earlier, the attackers caught up Sankara's body and buried his remains in a hastily prepared grave. The next day, Sankara's deputy, Blaise Campari, declared himself president. Campari had ruled the country ever since and has attempted to co-opt and distort Sankara's memory. It then goes into what the state of the place was when Sankara came into power.

namely the fact that life expenses stood at 51 years, 23 % of the adults can't read, 3 in every 10 children were underweight for their age and more than two-thirds of his 13.5 million at the time lived on less than $2 a day.

This is a documentary that any Sankara fan would have seen and people should see, which is Tom Sankara, yeah, The Upright Man. It's actually on YouTube. it's, what's the, I think it's an hour plus.

Milton Allimadi (34:08.778)
Yes, if they've not seen it, yes, I agree, they must.

Milton Allimadi (34:19.926)
No, it's only 55 minutes or so.

Adesoji Iginla (34:21.839)
55 minutes, yeah okay, on that now. With details how Sankara made tactical blunders and what have you. Now, there is a part here that stood out for me which was his quote. In 1985, Sankara said of his political philosophy, you cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount of madness. In this case, it comes from nonconformity, the courage to turn your back on the old formulas.

the courage to invent the future. It took madmen of yesterday for us to be able to act with extreme clarity today. I want to be one of those madmen. We must dare to invent the future." Sankara openly challenged both French hegemony in West Africa as well as his fellow military leaders. Sankara labored them criminals in power. He called for the scrapping of Africa's debt to international banks.

and to the former colonial masters. His reforms were widespread. For one, in 1984, which you've alluded to earlier, changed the name of the country from Hoppe-Volta, the name it had kept from colonialism to Burkina Faso. The new country's name translates as land of the upright people. It preached economic self-reliance. It shunned war bank loans and promoted local food and textile.

production. There is a classic scene in Schofield's documentary where he had the whole Burkina Faso delegation to an OAU meeting decked out in local textile and design. You want to speak more to his political philosophy.

Milton Allimadi (36:03.798)
Well, I think you've outlined his achievements already just by reading the sections. What I would like to go back to is his statement on you cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount of madness. And we've had many good mad men and mad women as well. So let's start with Nkrumah. Nkrumah, to believe that we can actually...

Adesoji Iginla (36:06.733)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (36:33.696)
kick out British colonialism. That is outright mad. Think about it. But it's understanding your people, you see? Ghana would not have had internal self-government in 1952 if Nkrumah was not a madman. Ghana would not have won independence in 1957 if Nkrumah was not a madman. Because...

Here was the status quo. In order to articulate your grievance, you have to know how to read, have to be educated, right? That was the narrative at the time. So in Cromwell, he goes for his education in the US, 1935, eventually graduates from Lincoln and from the University of Pennsylvania.

Adesoji Iginla (37:28.856)
Good.

Milton Allimadi (37:31.754)
goes to London. He's at the London School of Economics for a little bit. He doesn't finish there. He goes to the City University and he gets his...

Adesoji Iginla (37:40.994)
Yeah, he will come to London and meet up with the like meet up with the likes of Robert Mugabe.

Milton Allimadi (37:48.178)
Absolutely. But when it comes back, she joins the elitist party.

Adesoji Iginla (37:58.272)
Yes,

Milton Allimadi (37:58.495)
United Gold Coast Convention as the Secretary General. And these are parties of lawyers, doctors, bankers. And what are their grievances and what are they appealing for? Their grievances that they're discriminated against.

Adesoji Iginla (38:04.897)
General.

Milton Allimadi (38:26.208)
They have been to the best schools, including in the United Kingdom. And yet these doors are still closed to them.

Adesoji Iginla (38:30.508)
The Kingdom.

Milton Allimadi (38:38.634)
Come I said no.

independence now. And those elites are saying, wait a minute, are you saying we should run the entire country? And Kuma said, yes. So when Kuma realized these folks were not ready for independence now, he left. He created a massed, popular-based party. Right? The convention.

Adesoji Iginla (38:44.077)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (39:00.332)
and formed a new party.

Milton Allimadi (39:11.818)
people's body, right?

Adesoji Iginla (39:13.358)
CBP, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (39:16.078)
And that is how Ghana was able to have a national uprising, really.

supported by the mass. You don't need to be educated to understand that you're being exploited, correct? And that's what Nkrumah showed to the people. So it was able to galvanize, kick out. That's madness, Mandela, Nelson Mandela mad. How are you going to fight this powerful apartheid system?

Adesoji Iginla (39:33.912)
Chuh? Chuh? Chuh?

Adesoji Iginla (39:48.492)
mad. Amiga Cabra?

Milton Allimadi (39:55.968)
supported by all of Europe, all of the great power of the world, the United States. You start with that journey of madness. He's hitting a few government institutions. They arrest him, you know, thank you for the Central Intelligence Agency with your treacherous intervention to help South Africa arrest Mandela.

Adesoji Iginla (40:19.534)
You

Milton Allimadi (40:24.852)
They try him, they convict him, they sentence him to life.

Milton Allimadi (40:32.53)
It is when he is actually incarcerated that he becomes even much more powerful. Thanks also to another mad person, a mad woman in this case, Winnie Mandela, who is keeping the torch alive. Why is this woman protesting every day, getting arrested, getting beaten, getting tortured? I want to find out more. What is going on here? Now Mandela is becoming global icon.

Adesoji Iginla (40:35.467)
Like because more powerful. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (40:42.83)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:01.012)
because of the efforts of this mad woman. You see how madness is now paying off? Go to Egypt, Abdel Nasser. You have this monarchy with this big army supported by France and Britain because they extract, they control the finances of Egypt. Nasser with a few of his other fellow young officers the same now.

we can actually change this thing. So there are no shortages of examples. Secouture, France is saying, come, okay, we'll let you control a little bit of this, provided you stay within the family. He says, no, we are fighting because we want you to go. Punishment, boom. But they see, even after the punishment, he's still standing.

Adesoji Iginla (41:32.002)
Do this on our own,

Adesoji Iginla (41:37.518)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:58.506)
Then the other countries who have said, yes, we want to be half colony, say no, we want full independence as well, started by one madman. So that's why it's very important for people to understand what Sankara was saying there. If you are today a madman, a madwoman in an African country, and you know your madness is going to bring all these positive,

Adesoji Iginla (42:10.094)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (42:28.074)
changes. Please exercise your madness.

Adesoji Iginla (42:31.576)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (42:34.73)
There are no shortages, as you know, of of mad people in the past. But the message, I think, should resonate. Let them call you mad. So long as you know what you're doing is just and the people will benefit from it, please. We encourage that type of madness. As our friend, Representative Lewis used to say, Good trouble, exactly. That's another translation of what...

Adesoji Iginla (42:39.31)
Mm-hmm

Adesoji Iginla (42:58.142)
good trouble. Good trouble. Yeah, getting into good trouble. And you mentioned Sekituri. Sekituri actually then said it, that if the day you hear the Western powers praising your leader, know that your leader has sold you out. And it goes to show. So I like to name some other mad men.

Milton Allimadi (43:19.732)
There you go.

Adesoji Iginla (43:28.012)
We have, what's his name? Amika Cabra, Samora Macchio.

Milton Allimadi (43:32.304)
Absolutely. Think about it. Think about it. You're going to fight mighty Portugal. Don't you know Portugal is a member of NATO? You see? And when? And also help liberate Portugal itself? You know? Portugal was a fascist dictatorship. By the time they won the struggle in Guinea Bissau, they won the struggle in Angola and Mozambique.

Adesoji Iginla (43:42.891)
and win?

Adesoji Iginla (43:47.372)
Yeah? Yeah?

Adesoji Iginla (43:52.494)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (44:02.186)
You know, the Portuguese military got tired and they had a coup in Portugal itself, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (44:03.084)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:09.592)
Self, yeah?

Hmm. And let's even add Robert Mugabe for taking on the might of the British and winning.

Milton Allimadi (44:14.229)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (44:18.919)
Absolutely.

taking off the mind of the British. When I remember this one...

one description, him and a friend, I forget one of his comrades in the struggle, I forget which one later on, that visited the home of some Europeans, I don't know whether they were Christian ministers or whether they were educators, and I think they got off the chair after that had some conversation, they left.

I don't know how they got to find this out. I don't know whether one of them had forgotten something and came back or was communicated by somebody else later on. But that, allegedly, they found their host, who had just hosted them, disinfecting the seats they had been sitting on. And he never forgot that, of course. He OK, I'll remember this. Use this as one of his motivators.

Adesoji Iginla (45:11.106)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:20.471)
You

Milton Allimadi (45:21.571)
You never know really what takes people, right?

Adesoji Iginla (45:23.842)
What do you get up to when you leave? I mean, again, Sankara has sort of laid the marker. Can you speak to his green belt, the green wall, which is...

Milton Allimadi (45:40.542)
Okay, okay, okay, that's another madness. Think about it. You dare to convince people that you can actually stop desertification when the desert, the Sahara is eating up Africa, eating up Africa. Who are you to think you can do anything about it? Of course, individually, I cannot. But if all of us rise to the occasion,

Adesoji Iginla (45:47.843)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:52.108)
The desert.

Milton Allimadi (46:09.758)
we can by planting trees, millions of trees. So you have an African environmentalist. These are the people. fact, there should be a book.

about Africans principle pioneering environmentalist. And that book should focus on of course, Ankara and Wangari Matai of Kenya. You see? Think about it. These are Africans. When we are today in the year 2024, you still have some reactionary leaders in the Western countries, know, denying that there's any impact.

Adesoji Iginla (46:37.654)
Wangari mafai

Adesoji Iginla (46:44.685)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (46:56.962)
And he was talking about in the 80s.

Milton Allimadi (46:57.322)
on the environment from the environmental, know, climatic change, you know. This is in the 1980s. Right. So, Hatch and Carter lived longer. I agree with what you read from The Economist. You know, many African countries would have reaped the benefits of this extraordinary leadership. But what he provides,

Adesoji Iginla (47:02.903)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (47:24.05)
even up to date is that even though he's no longer with us, the lessons that he demonstrated are still with us. Just like the lessons demonstrated by Kwame Nkrumah are still with us today. Because nobody has been able to contradict what Sankara said, that the masses mobilize.

and allowed to take agency of their own affairs, they can transform the societies. They don't need any Western intervention to transform their societies. Warren Krumah said that if we don't have the United States of Africa, the crises are going to remain. We won't control our sovereignty. Imperialism will invade with armed forces anytime they want, the most recent example being Libya in 2011, right?

imperialism will continue to determine the value of our exports relative to the exports to us and they would always be in a privileged condition. As a result, we will become more impoverished. As a result, we will depend on more debt from them. As a result, we would not even be able to produce enough food to feed our own country.

Adesoji Iginla (48:42.766)
you

Milton Allimadi (48:43.062)
As a result, we will have more neocolonial leaders who do not depend on the support of their own citizens to remain in power, but depend on the support of the Western countries. Just think about it. He wrote about this in 1965 in neocolonialism. And everything that he outlined is manifest today. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (48:55.006)
external bodies yeah yeah i mean

Adesoji Iginla (49:01.592)
colonnade as the last stage of imperialism.

Milton Allimadi (49:10.422)
So what I'm saying is that even though they are not here, they left us with the game plan. So we need to execute that game plan. That is my message to the young people in Africa. We can transform Africa, but let's get rid of the obstacles. At one point, the obstacles to African transformation and advance was European direct physical colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (49:16.621)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (49:40.02)
with European governors, with European commanders of the national armies, colonial armies of course, European commanders of the national colonial police force, right? So that impediment was removed, but they were replaced by Africans who continue executing the same policies. African commanders of our forces who are now,

sustaining the tyranny that the colonial army used to sustain. Of course, colonialism is a tyranny, correct? Brutalizing the masses, just like the colonial armies and police forces used to do, right? Absolutely, think about it. Probably we don't even know whether he's alive or not. And he's still officially supposedly president of Cameroon.

Adesoji Iginla (50:17.09)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (50:24.0)
like the likes of Paul Beer, the likes of Eeyore Misuveni.

Adesoji Iginla (50:33.246)
president.

Milton Allimadi (50:36.01)
No, sisters and brothers, we must say no. We don't have to accept abuse and exploitation. If they're already forcing you to perish, drowning in the Mediterranean, dying in the thick forest in South America trying to make it to the United States, change things on the ground back home so that we can take that power.

Adesoji Iginla (50:56.333)
No states, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (51:05.79)
and use it positively the way Nkrumah was doing in Ghana, the way Sankara was doing in Bukina Faso before they were interrupted. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (51:17.518)
And you made mention of the fact that he had… you spoke to his political philosophies. Can you explain how he came about that? Was he an avid reader or… okay.

Milton Allimadi (51:30.206)
Yes, of course. And you know, that's one thing we both have in common. That's our bias. Reading. Reading would really transform you and you know...

Adesoji Iginla (51:38.637)
Read it.

Milton Allimadi (51:45.942)
I have to confess, I'm wondering whether, had it not been the exile and poverty in Tanzania.

You know, many things spark people in different ways, correct? So me, for example, so my family was exiled from Uganda from General Idi Amin in the 1970s. So reading, to me, became like a great escape, right? We lived in impoverished condition and I spent many hours in the library.

Adesoji Iginla (52:03.39)
Yeah, true.

Milton Allimadi (52:27.178)
Because books will take me to different locations, different narratives, right? Different thought processes. And it also helped that Tanzania was.

Adesoji Iginla (52:29.518)
places you couldn't. Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:39.746)
revolutionary under Julio Aznireira. So even the newspapers, right, the stories were of resistance, the struggle in South Africa, the struggle in what is today Zimbabwe, all the former Portuguese colonies. So I read a lot about that. The struggle in Vietnam at that time, fighting against American imperialism. know, so also actually I should give credit to my late father.

Adesoji Iginla (52:42.231)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (53:06.326)
because he read the papers, the Tanzania Daily News, when it was printed, you know, the same night. So, you know, this little kid and he's sending me to buy the first edition, I think 10 p.m. I would read it under the lights, the streetlights. Read it before I came home and gave it to him, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (53:09.934)
Thank

Adesoji Iginla (53:25.588)
The street lights,

Adesoji Iginla (53:31.022)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (53:32.842)
So that really inspired my passion for reading. And so yes, Sankara was an avid reader. He was a reader, but he was also a very serious student. In that, he realized that if France is teaching us that this is the correct way to look at things, neoliberalism, you

capitalism, so-called free market, all this nonsense that they teach when they know there's no such thing as a free market because they don't practice it in their own countries. When the auto industry was collapsing, the banks were collapsing during the financial crisis in the United States, 2008, 2009, did they say, let the market resolve itself? Of course not, because all the major banks would have collapsed, right? The auto industry would have collapsed.

Adesoji Iginla (54:10.126)
Mm.

Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (54:17.783)
Nope.

Milton Allimadi (54:25.194)
Forget about the Great Depression of 1929. The US would be no more. So government intervened and fed trillions of dollars into those companies. Give them money. Here, take money, take money, take money. That hand was not invisible at all, you see? And yet that's what they preach for Africa. Absolute rubbish. So Sankara started questioning, obviously,

Adesoji Iginla (54:40.824)
Private Enterprise.

Milton Allimadi (54:55.35)
I'm not saying he's questioning the things that happened in 2008 recently, no. But there were things happening during his era that did not add up, and he was questioning those things. So he started reading alternative, know, socialism, Marxism, critique of capital, and all that. And that all formed his opinion as to what would work better in Africa and in Burkina Faso.

Adesoji Iginla (55:20.302)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:23.726)
Now, the reason I mentioned his avid reader in the ears, I want people to read more about him, especially one. There's a book, A Certain Amount of Madness, The Life and Politics and Legacy of Tomo Sankara. So it's a couple of essays, but edited by Amber Mori. And it's quite a chunky read.

There is another by Brian J Peterson. Again, this is looking at just the revolutionary life of him, especially in the life in the times in which he lived, which was the Cold War. So basically how to balance the interest of his people against the East and the West. And as any teacher will say, read the words of the man himself. You can read

Milton Allimadi (56:09.322)
Correct. The powers.

Adesoji Iginla (56:21.282)
Thomas Sankara Speaks, which is a collection of his speeches and interviews. It's Thomas Sankara Speaks. And, but if you're not feeling really up to all those chunky reads, there's a tiny, short history of Africa, Thomas Sankara, an African revolutionary by NX Hatch. this is quite, quite a handy book. So, there is something for everyone in terms of literature.

Milton Allimadi (56:42.388)
Yes, that's an easy read, right?

Milton Allimadi (56:49.674)
Yes, I'm glad you shared those resources.

Adesoji Iginla (56:53.73)
You know, so there is one final piece I want us to look at. Again, it's how the moment we're far removed from the events, the idea of rewriting history, and for them when they rewrite history, it's because they are conversant of the notion that we are not engaging

with our own very history. And for that example, we'll go to The Economist, your magazine of choice. We did quite... And it goes, so from the archives, it's titled, Thomas Ankara, Burkina Faso's revolutionary leader was assassinated by rivals. Now we've lost the name of the person who killed them.

but now rivals. On October 15, 1987, he sought to give his country dignity, the economist wrote at the time. And he goes further. Captain Thomas Sankara was a handsome, unpretentious young man who wanted to give his country dignity and hope. He changed its name for geographical banality of Upper Volta to Burkina Faso, meaning the honest man's country. No? Exactly, country of upright men.

Milton Allimadi (57:51.786)
Right, generic.

Adesoji Iginla (58:20.11)
sold off his minister's Mercedes Benz and gave them Renault 5S, took a guitar lesson from Mr. Bob Geldof. You must almost put the proverbial white man there in order to show him how to do stuff. His country proved ungrateful on October 15. He and about 100 of fellow citizens died in a palace coup in Ugadugu. He is succeeded by its leader, Captain Blaise Campari.

who has largely organized Sankara's own coup of 1983 and was Minister of Justice. He said his old friend had betrayed the revolution and allowed social decadence, leading inextricably to total chaos. This was the country's fifth coup since its shaking free from France in 1960. First, a veteran civilian was overthrown. goes, then he goes in order to, you know, assassinate the character.

off the person. He says next door gunners, twice as populous and more than twice as rich, has been down the same road and is now run by an officer of a similar rank, flat lieutenant Jerry Rollins, whose main reputable rival is a lieutenant. Campara preached revolution as loudly as his friend he killed, something closer to Russian's ideas of party discipline rather than the free-willing

consultation of the people that Sankara practiced. But many African revolutionaries find Marx irrelevant even if they spare time to read him. As for Connell, Mamma and Gaddafi, they are better at swallowing his subsidies than his policies. I will just stop there. It's enough drivel to make, you know.

To make someone who was observant of what was happening at the times, known this year's character assassination at his best. What say you? I don't want to, you know, put words into your mouth.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:27.445)
When was it published?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:29.346)
This was published, wait a second, this was published.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:36.488)
Let me see. October 20th. No. No, let me see. So it's from the archives. It's not dated.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:47.574)
Should be someone talking.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:49.408)
No, it just says from the archives.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:54.868)
Alright, so...

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:55.352)
So I'm guessing it was a bit shortly thereafter his assassination.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:58.25)
probably shortly after I was killed.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:03.337)
Alright, so...

The, well, obviously the tone is not surprising. Yeah. It's the economists. And it's saying since the country had the misfortune of winning independence from France, it's had a series of coups. Five coups and progressively the coups are buying more junior officers. So.

Well, a coup is probably bad, it's definitely bad to the economists. In Africa, the coups are even getting progressively worse. From senior officers now you're coming to lieutenants and captains. And it's not only Burkina Faso. In Ghana, you have Jerry Romans, a mere flight lieutenant.

His rival is another lieutenant. And look what Rawlings has been doing in Ghana as well. So we learn a few things from the economists. We learned that colonialism was good.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:21.918)
Okinawa made the mistake of getting rid of French colonialism and as a result

Five coups. And this of course is complete utter falsehood. The person who killed Sankara is even much more radical. Campari is much more doctrinaire Marxist than Campari. So everything is upside down.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:47.81)
Hahaha

Milton Allimadi (01:02:59.048)
As we know, colonialism is bad.

United States throughout British colonialism. It charted its own path. It has many issues and many contradictions and a lot of problems. But it is no longer a British colony and it's exceeded Britain economically and many other things because

was allowed to exercise its sovereignty. You see? So nobody can say colonialism was good for the United States. So that cannot be the key word.

So if colonialism is not good for the United States, it's definitely not good for Africa. Africa, Burkina Faso, and all those countries have not been able to exceed those former colonial powers, economic. But that does not mean colonialism is bad. It's not. I mean, it's good. It's not, because we already proven by the example of the United States that colonialism is not good.

So what is preventing African countries from exceeding the former colonial powers? And that's when you start to examine the economic arrangement. The United States produces what it consumes.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:33.832)
And when it wants to trade with the outside world, it exchanges what it wants to exchange. Right? China is not saying, US, I want you to produce cotton for me, or coffee, or tea, or tobacco. That's what my economy needs from you. No. The US says, this is what we produce for American consumers.

If you like some of the things we produce, business. Do you have an arrangement like that in a single African country? No. Every African country produces what the former colonial power wants. And it produces what a new power, which is China, wants. Not colonial, but a global power. You see? That is what's holding Africa back.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:09.559)
Nope.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:22.254)
China.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:30.73)
But the economist with his lies implies that it's because you got rid of the good hands of the white man who was leading you in the right direction through colonialism. So that's my analysis of what you read so far.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:49.166)
So which brings me to the prediction Sankara would, the ominous prediction he made which regards to the debt issue that I cannot go it alone. If I do, which was a statement he made July 15, 1987 at the OAU meeting, that the Africa's debt is an embarrassment to us all as leaders but if we want to do something

We can do it collectively. But if I were to do it, I won't be here with you at the next meeting. Three months later.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:30.798)
His prediction came true. And he, know, 1987, October 15, 1987. But I would like to remember him with one thing, which was, if we look at the United States, the United States is about to have his election. And one of the key things on, for debates is women's health.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:33.058)
October 15, 1987 he was killed.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:39.722)
Here's the key thing.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:49.919)
and

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:59.36)
Roe v. Wade being cancelled.

Sankara made one of his policies was women will be educated. In fact, in that documentary by Robert Shofield, The Upright Man, there was a segment there where he made a pronouncement. And the pronouncement was, what's the point of a pregnant girl being withdrawn from school? What would happen?

is the pregnant girl should go to school when she's about to deliver. She delivers and give the baby to an elder in the household and go back to school. In his words, it takes two to tango. So why should the girl be deprived of her education?

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:59.566)
So for me, that is leadership. That is thinking outside of the box. We're talking the 1980s here.

African 1980s and here is a leader of a small country, numerically, making pronouncements that scare the old guard the likes of Félix Soufouboï, the likes of Abou Diouf in Senegal, the likes of Niasi Beye Adema in Togo, because they know the moment their people who speak French, which he does speak,

hear what he has to say, their position will become untenable. Not that it wasn't, but it will be made hastily so. So I just think we need to constantly remember Captain Thomas Noel Isidore Sankara.

He was here, he saw, and he conquered in four years. There are leaders on the African continent who have been in power for decades and cannot point to one tangible thing that they've done that's alleviated the well-being of their people.

Milton Allimadi (01:09:30.57)
Yeah, I think you've wrapped it up. There's no need for me to really add anything to what you said, except for two comments. One, in terms of the size of a country, whether it's small in America or not, that has already been proven as irrelevant by Sankara himself. And before him by Cuba, of course, under Fidel Castro and his comrades.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:45.966)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:50.606)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:10:01.366)
On three occasions Cuba came, on four occasions, Cuba came to rescue Africa in a big way. On five occasions in the 1960s. When Africans were still fighting for liberation from colonial powers, Cuba became involved very early with the intervention by Che Guevara in Congo. Of course they did not prevail, but Cuba was still learning at that time as well.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:16.641)
liberation.

Milton Allimadi (01:10:30.25)
And that taught them when they came back in the 1970s, when Angola could have ended up being governed by Savimbi or Holden Robato, these Western puppets, know. Cuba came in a massive way and supported the MPLA and completely destroyed the initial small intervention by South Africa.

which was supporting both the UNITA and the FNL of Roberto, right? Cuba came back in a massive way in 1987 when South Africa deployed its regular armed force, not just praxis, this time supporting UNITA and FNL. They came with their own army and occupied parts of Angola.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:59.316)
You need to...

Milton Allimadi (01:11:26.662)
and would probably helped Sir Vimbi march all the way to Rwanda, the capital, and take over. Cuba came. People should Google the Battle of Quito, C-U-I-T-O, C-U-A-N-A-V-A-L-E, correct? Destroy the South African Army. When all these other African countries...

are not making a similar intervention. They're using their big armed forces to suppress their own citizens. Shame on all of them. Cuba helped the Angolan army, the ANC, of course, the African National Congress, and SWAPO, the liberation movement of Namibia, destroyed the South African army, which led to Namibia's independence, which led to the release of Mandela, which led to elections in South Africa, which led to Mandela being the first president of South Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:23.16)
president of

Milton Allimadi (01:12:27.403)
Cuba came back in a massive way during Ebola with Cuban doctors deployed in all those West African countries that were afflicted to help them. Tiny Cuba. Cuba came back in a massive way during the COVID pandemic, you see? So we really have no excuse in Africa. We have no excuse.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:46.786)
with two vaccines. With two vaccines.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:53.214)
Yes, imperialism still plays a predominant role, but Cuba lives in the armpits of imperialism, US imperialism, and still Cuba is still showing us the way. So we have no excuse. We need correct leadership in African countries. So the youth, encourage you. Do what you need to do so that we have leaders like Thomas Sankama. And then here's the final word I would like to also add.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:59.657)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:11.79)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:23.412)
The saddest thing is they didn't need to kill him. So we associate the correlation between when he said, let's renounce the debt, right? And then months later, they killed him. Yes, that was the spark. But here's the irony and the saddest part. They don't even need the money. They don't need the money. They do not need this money back. They can wipe out.

this day.

Completely. They don't need the money. But what they need and want is dependency. You see? Dependency. They need you to be dependent. Right? So the slave master was not going to wake up one day on the plantations. I say, I saw the light today. I woke up. I had this.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:10.67)
and engine them. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:25.498)
I wake up, now I see the light. Enslavement is bad.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:33.27)
Get out of the plantation. No, it did not happen that way, as you know. So African liberation is not going to happen that way. And one of the shackles that maintain enslavement, economic enslavement of Africa, just like they had the iron shackles on the plantations, one of those shackles really is the debt burden.

And that is why they won't remove it. Because it will lead to liberation. Who wants Africa to become another China?

then who will you exploit? And that's the saddest thing. You know, they see everything in a zero-sum society. Your gain equals my loss.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:26.166)
And so the hypocrisy of talking about partnership.

There is no such thing.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:38.218)
Can't be a partner when your average income is 50, 60, 70 thousand dollars and the average income in those countries, 800 dollars, 1000 dollars. So what kind of partnership is this? It's an illusion.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:52.627)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:15:59.306)
But we can get there and that is the process of having these conversations to change the mindset. Sankara knew the importance of changing the mindset, you know, so that they can imagine a different Burkina Faso and a different Africa. And that is why we engage in this conversation every week to transform the mindset. And we will. And we will. Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:06.548)
Of course.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:20.344)
Yeah. And to reclaim the narrative. The narrative is ours and we have to reclaim it one story at a time.

Milton Allimadi (01:16:31.442)
Right, so I'm happy to and proud to say that I am one of those mad people that Sankara was talking about.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:36.878)
I would put myself in that shoes. Yeah, yeah, I'm mad. Yeah, yeah. So thank you for coming through. And yes, again, I hope you found this informative. And if you did, please like, share, and yeah, each one bring one so that we grow this thing.

Milton Allimadi (01:16:43.434)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:06.284)
We have to have avenues like this where we can talk with regards to what we know to be the truth. Again, what's his name? Noam Chomsky wrote the book, Manufacturing Consent. We don't seek to manufacture consent here. We just need to reframe the narrative so that you see it for what it truly is. Sankara has been gone now 37 years, October 15, 2024.

and his name continues to live on. I mean, we could go down the pantheon of African leaders, but he stands as one of them. today, we're just making replanting that tree of who he is, his value system, his political philosophy, and the impact he has on the African continent. And with me, as always, has been

Milton, Brother Milton, Alimadi. And we hope to see you next week again, Brother Milton. Last words.

Milton Allimadi (01:18:15.7)
Asante sana, a luta continua.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:18.412)
And from me, Odibakonno, as we will say in Yoruba, which is, till we see you next time. And thank you for joining us. And again, I'll see you next time. Bye for now.